Eating smokeless

A little extra data with regard to my post yesterday wondering why we have smoke-free restaurants but not bars or nightclubs.

Here is an official list of such restaurants, helpfully compiled by those evil "statists" (to hear some of my respondents tell it, as they go off on diatribes having nothing to do with the subject at hand) at DHEC.

One day it would be nice to see such a list of places where one could have a brew and hear live music, and still breathe. Anyone? Anyone?

41 thoughts on “Eating smokeless

  1. bill

    Smokefree Live Music and Jazz Clubs
    Blues Alley Jazz Supper Club, Washington, DC
    “The nation’s finest jazz and super club” – New York Times
    Blues Alley is the nation’s oldest continuing jazz supper club. Artists such as Dizzy Gillespie, Sarah Vaughan, Nancy Wilson, Grover Washington Jr., Ramsey Lewis, Charlie Byrd, Maynard Ferguson and Eva Cassidy have performed in this small intimate setting.
    The Jazz Factory, Louisville, KY
    The Jazz Factory is Louisville’s premier venue for live, world-class jazz performed in an intimate club setting and “for the health and comfort of our patrons, staff and musicians, The Jazz Factory maintains a smoke-free environment. (The only thing that smokes is the music!)”
    TC’s Hi-Class Smoke-Free Jazz and Funk Dance Lounge, Gainesville, FL
    TC’s offers musicians and club-goers in Florida the opportunity to dance all night long in a smokefree nightclub.
    Joe Segal’s Jazz Showcase
    “Joe Segal’s has been the place to come in Chicago for classic jazz.” – Center Stage
    Joe Segal’s is celebrating its 50th Anniversary this year.
    59 West Grand, Chicago, IL
    Tel: (312) 670-2473
    Wild Buffalo’s, Bellingham, WA
    Declared to be the “Best in live music and dancing”, Wild Buffalo’s books local and national acts, blues, R&B, funk, soul, worldbeat, folk rock, classic rock and roll, Celtic rock, and Latin Salsa.
    Gilly’s, Dayton, OH
    “Everybody is extremely excited about it. We’ve had three shows (since going smoke-free) and no problems.”
    132 S. Jefferson Street
    Dayton, OH 45402
    (937) 228-8414
    Cat’s Cradle, Carrboro, NC
    A world famous live music venue, bringing the finest musical acts to Chapel Hill and Carrboro for over thirty years, the Cat’s Cradle is a 600-capacity rock club that has played host to Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Sonic Youth.
    “For the health of our employees and other patrons, the Cat’s Cradle is now a smokefree club. Although one of the Driveby Truckers made a joke when they played here: ‘A North Carolina club banning smoking, that’s like public transportation in Detroit.’ But it’s been well-accepted, and I feel confident it will book attendance.” – Frank Health, Owner of Cat’s Cradle
    Dimitriou’s Jazz Alley, Seattle, WA
    Entertaining internationally renowned jazz musicians for over twenty years, Jazz Alley was recently picked as both the Editor’s Choice and Audience Choice for Seattle’s Best Jazz club by Citysearch Seattle. In 2002, DownBeat Magazine voted Jazz Alley as one of the top 100 jazz clubs in the world. In years past we have also been voted “Best Jazz Club” by the Seattle Weekly.
    “All [workers, patrons, and musicians] love that we are smoke free… We made that rule for all the obvious reasons.”
    Jazz Alley, Little Rock, AR
    Little Rock music promoter Sean Porch is reopening Jazz Alley as a 100% smokefree music club and bar – the only one in the city. Jazz Alley will be located inside the Quapaw Tower on 700 E. Ninth St. Expect its doors to reopen in late July 2005.
    Watertown, Seattle, WA
    “Best Dance Club of 2004” — Citysearch.
    On August 5th, club owner Keith Robbins will hold an “ash-kicking” party for the pubic at Watertown, declaring itself Seattle’s first and forever smokefree dance club.
    106 1st Ave N
    Seattle, WA 98109
    (206) 284-5003
    Nectar, Seattle, WA
    412 N. 36th Street
    Seattle, WA 98103
    (206) 632-2020
    See Sound Lounge, Seattle, WA
    115 Blanchard St Belltown
    Seattle, WA
    (206) 374-3733
    Bacchus Restaurant, Vancouver, WA
    “Being the only smoke-free venue featuring live music in the metro area, we are extremely popular, especially on Friday and Saturday nights. A smoke-free environment fits with the entertainment and fine dining we offer at Bacchus,” says owner Lloyd Taylor.
    The Ozone, Fox Valley, WI
    Fox Valley’s premier smokefree club!
    “What can we say… ‘It’s Grooby Baby!’ Retro is hot and you’re guaranteed a smashing good time. Whether you “Shake Your Booty” on the dance floor or simply hang out in our pad, there’s no question this is a happening kind of place.” — Fox Cities of Wisconsin “Night Life” Review
    (920) 738-5603
    UpStarCrow Jazz and Blues Bistro, Newport, KY
    Aura, Portland, OR
    Tillicum Club, Portland, OR
    “Your favorite neighborhood bar and restaurant is now non smoking!”
    The Tillicum Club features the best in live entertainment 5 nights a week hosting the best bands in the Portland area. No cover changes.
    Doug Fir Lounge, Portland, OR
    Wilf’s Restaurant and Piano Bar, Portland, OR
    Sixth year for the “Best of Portland Guide” 2002
    Evening Muse, Atlanta, GA
    The Vaudeville Mews
    212 4th St.
    Des Moines, IA
    (515) 243-3270
    World Cafe Live
    “Best New Music Venue” & “Best Kids Concert Series” — Philadelphia Magazine, August 2005
    3025 Walnut Street
    Philadelphia, PA 19104
    (215) 222-1400
    The Music Hall
    An alcohol and drug free live music venue.
    2147 N. College Ave
    Fayetteville, AR
    McFoster’s Natural Kind Cafe
    302 S 38th Street
    Omaha, NE 68131
    (402) 345-7477
    Offering live music every night!
    Zoo Bar
    Being a world famous blues and jazz bar, many of the great ones have played here. If you are a hot up-and-coming musician and/or a classic, click here to book a gig at the Zoo Bar.
    136 North 14th Street
    Lincoln, NE 68508
    (402) 435-8754
    (402) 475-3094 (fax)
    Mary’s Place
    Lincoln’s premier dance and entertainment club!
    1920 West ‘O’ St.
    Lincoln, NE 68528
    (402) 434-3335
    Tuesday-Saturday 3pm-1am
    Closed Sunday-Monday
    The Depot
    “I think the number one thing for non-smoking is the diversity of people that we want to have come into the venue. People who want to come in and enjoy a great show and not have to put up with cigarette smoke.” — Mark Wheadon, General Manager, The Depot.
    400 W South Temple- At The Gateway
    Salt Lake City, UT 84103

  2. bill

    Neko Case will be playing Cat’s Cradle tonight and tomorrow.You’ve got great taste in music,Brad and I’m sure you’d love hearing this incredible singer/songwriter-SMOKEFREE!!
    Call in sick and go.

  3. Lee

    A “statist” is someone who wants to surrender control of their personal decisions, and interpersonal relationships, to employees of The State, the government. To do that, he also wants State control of those who are capable of managing their own lives.
    The above list demonstrates that there is a market for tobacco-free clubs and bars, that there is no need for The State to impose a smoking ban or rules on all of the others.
    But that is not good enough for the moralists. They want to sit at home and know no one else can choose to be around tobacco smoke, or not.

  4. Dave

    Brad, now I know our government is taking too much of our hard earned money if we can afford to pay DHEC staffers to compile lists like this. How many high paid people and computer systems are in place to first collect these places, then of course the audit team must go out, even with surprise audits, and visit, have a few drinks, etc. to verify the report. No wonder so many work for DHEC. Do we have a VP of Smoke Free Establishments on the payroll? It warms my heart to know we have everything from A Shot of Sugar in Spartanburg to Zaxbys on this list. But that Sugar place may be next on the do gooder hit list, they must be making people obese and all that. Who wants to be VP of Fat Free Establishments? That will be next.

  5. Dave

    Lee, we are living in a state that most agree underfunds education (for example, I feel strongly to start a teacher out of college at $28k is insulting to that person) and if we all could see the nonsense the taxpayers are paying for, there would be a rebellion. What is really a shame is that Gov. Sanford could straighten the mess out but we all know the status quo folks in the GOP and Dem parties will block him any way possible.

  6. Lee

    The only people who FEEL that teachers are underpaid are the ones who don’t THINK about it.
    Teachers rank in the bottom 10% of most incoming college classes. On an hourly basis, they earn more than most engineers and architects, who rank in the top 10% of their classes.
    If you pay the same teachers more, that does nothing to improve education.
    If you raise teacher salaries, you can afford to fire the current ones and hire new ones. If you don’t intend to use higher wages to attract better workers, it is a waste of money than only the current crop of workers would promote.

  7. Brad Warthen

    Yeah, boy, I’ll bet we could all have a big tax cut if DHEC hadn’t supplied that helpful list for the public. What a waste. You’d think they were trying to promote public health or something. Just think — giving people information they need to eat smokeless if they so choose. These oppressors just have no conscience.
    I’ll bet it took a DHEC employee a whole minute or two to notify restaurants (for whom they would already have contact addresses, since they have to pass health inspections — another intrusion on our God-given right to eat roach feces). And beyond that, e-mail is just SO expensive.
    And then, each time one of the restaurants took them up on it and contacted DHEC to ask to be put on the list, it probably took some ‘crat feeding at the public trough 10 or 15 seconds to type it onto the list. Will government waste never cease!?!?!?
    Just think, that employee could have spent that time destroying our economy by harassing hard-working businesses with a bunch of meddling regulations. I mean, THAT’s what we pay them for, isn’t?

  8. Herb

    Brad, that was almost as good a use of irony (or was it sarcasm?) as Mark Twain. In fact, I bet he’d be applauding.

  9. Capital A

    Lee, obviously (with ample evidence being your posted thoughts and the manner in which they are presented)many teachers have failed you, and the rest of us must pay for it.
    Do you have any idea the uncredited hours that teachers and coaches work? The money will attract the better teachers. Cash comes first.
    Or have you forgotten your own self-loathing, cynical view on your fellow man?
    Of course, the reason we have so many great lawyers and engineers is because they all want to make the world a better place, right? If you can’t pay representatives of those two professions properly, they’ll just accept hugs, kisses or personally made handicrafts, I’m sure.
    Lee, a half-thought like you is one of the reasons that our schools are in the shape they are today. You’d slap a kid in the face and lick his lollipop if you could get a tax break.
    There are “worthless” teachers just as there are subpar personnel in any profession. I was very quick to call them out, just as I am doing to you for just parroting information from you’ve attained from conservative talk-radio pill poppers.
    Don’t be a sucker, Lee.

  10. Lee

    It thought it was the job of newspapers to compile reviews of eating establishments, their menus, price ranges, and atmosphere.
    Maybe DHEC should start reporting the sports, too, or just publishing the entire paper.
    Seriously, this is what is wrong with government today. Liberals like Brad Warthen see nothing wrong any activity. They think government is supposed to provide all the services that the private sector doesn’t, and a lot that it does.

  11. Lee

    Yes, I have actually STUDIED the hours that teachers work, and engineers, for comparison. Engineers are open with there data. Teacher unions don’t want surveys, much less independent observation by industrial engineers.
    If you have to launch into shouting about how I “hate teachers”, etc, blah, blah blah… then you really are not up discussing the points I raised.
    Again: are you willing to use higher teacher pay to hire better teachers?

  12. Capital A

    I think I stated that much in my post. Reading comprehension problems, Lee?
    Where did I shout? No caps for Capital A that I could see.
    “…there data.”? “Their” would have served you better there.
    You always have a kernel of a thought and then you pop it with proof gathered from some hot-aired, hamhock-heaving radio personality. The situation is more complex than you present.
    Your post and its grammatical nuances are proof that we need to get on this problem post-haste.

  13. Lee

    Does the fact that all you can discuss are typing mistakes indicate to you that you might need to think and study the subject a bit more?

  14. Herb

    I’m still looking for the right statistics on the “two gallons gas to get a gallon of ethanol one.” Theologians and politicians can be stupid, but businessmen are usually pretty sharp, especially when it comes to figuring out what their money is doing. Even Gomer Pyle would invest better than that.
    You do have to wonder where Lee gets some of his statistics.

  15. Lee

    Herb, I take it that you don’t believe that it requires 2 gallons of tractor fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol. Well, it does. You can see the numbers in the testimony of the Dept of Agriculture in the sizing of the ethanol subsidies pushed through by former Senator Tom Daschle of South Dakota.
    I grew up on a large farm. If ethanol were an economical fuel, bootleggers would use it.

  16. Dave

    The DHEC list is but one example of thousands of areas that the government has no business funding. Brad, you really need to step back and consider if this type of activity was ever intended by the founders. Restaurants belong to restaurant associations and/or Chambers of Commerce. That is where this type of list belongs. A taxpayer funded baseball park is in the same category. As I posted before, what will be next? This type of government spending abuse has spiraled way out of control. I just sent my taxes in so all of this is fresh in my mind.

    As to the teachers making more money, I say absolutely yes, but along with that comes performance monitoring and results measurement. Higher pay would attract better personnel. Everyone can agree on that.

  17. Dave

    Brad, this is so far off topic but I hope you don’t mind. This is a report from a local school teacher who attended the Columbia immigration rally. She mentions an unnamed State reporter. This really is interesting but I noticed so far you have steered clear of the immigration issue (at least on this site):
    See Citizen report on immigration rally!

  18. Lee

    The State editors are hiding under their desks, afraid to touch the immigration issue.
    Even worse are the police, not to be seen, while thousands of criminals laugh in their face and dare American to arrest and deport them.

  19. Herb

    Oh, and Brad, that link I gave is an important one for working towards energy independence. See the part on cellulose. Maybe that includes celery stalks? I’d like to get rid of those for a good purpose.

  20. Dave

    kc – That is what’s great about the web and free speech. Any citizen can become a reporter and give a side to a story that the press would not for whatever reason.

  21. Lee

    Herb is playing the usually Internet game of rushing around to find something to play “gotcha”, rather than reading scholarly material to become educated on the subject.
    I posted a lot of links to studies of ethanol production which found that it is economically unfeasible, and some opposing studies which claim it to be feasible, usually funded by environmental groups.
    The fact is that farmers and refiners like Archer Daniels Midland will not grow corn and distill ethanol without huge government subsidies, because they say it is an inefficient and unprofitible business.
    Ethanol has a low molecular weight, with only half the energy of the lightest weight petroleum fuels, and no comparison to diesel fuel. Brazil uses it because they have no choice, and the misuse of the land will be a temporary situation on the way to ruining millions of acres better suited to producing coffee and exotic woods for export that would buy oil.

  22. Herb

    What “game”? When Lee makes a claim, it always behooves one to look at the statistics twice. Thus when he quotes statistics on how bad illegal aliens are, and I read material in US News and World Report that suggests the opposite, I think again.
    I don’t know about other people, but there are only a certain amount of subjects that I have time to do a lot of research on. Some things interest me, but I have to rely on people whom I trust to do the research and boil it down to the bottom line. Which is what I did on the ethanol issue. I asked someone I trusted, and who knows the whole agricultural scene well, to tell me the facts.
    On illegal aliens, I think I am more inclined to listen to Mort Zuckerman that to Lee’s concept of Western European cultural superiority.

  23. Lee

    Herb, all I ask is that you read some articles I provided, arguing both sides of the ethanol issue.
    Then tell me why such huge federal subsidies are necessary to cut the price at the pump in half, in order to make it the same as gasoline.

  24. Lee

    Mort Zuckerman’s opinion is based mostly on his assumptions about the labor pool. He doesn’t argue a position – he just makes excuses for continuing to do nothing about immigration.
    How about reducing the size of government enough to lay off some employees and let them replace the illegal immigrant labor? Instead of consuming taxes, they could pay taxes on money EARNED by roofing houses, picking lettuce, cleaning motels, etc.

  25. Lee

    The Berkeley study cited above by Herb is not a direct study of ethanol economics, but a study of why all the other 6 major studies which I cited came to such widely varying conclusions.
    The Berkeley study found that ethanol, in its present production process, is too expensive to replace gasoline. A new process would have to be developed to make use of more of the corn stalk and husks to possibly lower the cost.

  26. Lee

    Back to the thread topic, I saw Roy Buchanan at Blues Alley back when it was a smoky jazz club, and later saw Eva Cassidy there when it was not. Both died tragically with little commercial recognition.
    If you have never heard Roy Buchanan’s self-title debut album, or Eva Cassidy’s posthumous “Live at Blues Alley”, find a copy.

  27. Herb

    Nice try, Lee. I figured you would misconstrue what the article said, and bend it back around to fit your aims. Did you read the part about overestimating the amount of farm fuel needed to produce ethanol? That pertains directly to your first post.
    As for hiring illegals, the bottom line is that many contractors go for them in order to get a job well done. They want people who will do good work.
    Lee’s premise that Western European culture is superior to the rest of the world doesn’t hold water. The reality is, though some illegal aliens cause trouble, the majority are working hard, and working well. A lesson to us all, in fact.
    I think we should increase Lee’s taxes.

  28. Lee

    Herb, do you understand that the Berkeley researchers never studied the subject first-hand, but only put the other six studies into a spreadsheet?
    Go read some real research, like the ones farmers use to explain why they need subsidies to keep ethanol from selling for $4.00 a gallon. And listen to those of us with backgrounds in engineering, farming and economic analysis who try to explain the FACTS to you.

  29. Lee

    If your business needs illegal labor, you probably shouldn’t be in business.
    I get so tired of the racist support for illegal immigrants because they are not white, and the anti-American support for them because they are backwards and illiterate.
    According to the Border Patrol estimates, over 500,000 of them are convicted felons. They make up 22% of our prison population, and consume $40 BILLION on welfare and other social services.

  30. Dave

    Mexico is overflowing with homeless street bums, and Vicente Fox is directing many of them right into our nation. Absolutely disgusting and has to stop. Immediately. We tell PHds. and doctors and engineers they cannot come in yet we want to give amnesty to street bums. Imagine if our Easter border was with sub Saharan Africa. Every single African would cross the border. Are we a nation or not here?

  31. Lee

    If the illegal immigrants are so skilled and industrious, why can’t they stay in Mexico and make it, and themselves prosperous?

  32. Dave

    The Democrats do not want to protect us domestically any more than they care about foreign security. That is why they should never ever control the military or executive branch again, ever.

  33. Herb

    The reasons for the situations in poorer countries are various and complex. The simple fact is that many contractors and other employers know that our “white” boys have, in general (of course with exceptions), grown too obese and lazy to do a good job. It is a typical problem for affluent societies, and I doubt there is any affluent society that has been able to deal with it in the long run. I don’t blame the younger generation, ultimately; I blame my generation, who are their parents. We are to blame for too many kids who want to do as little as possible for as much money as possible.
    President Kennedy set a little movement in the right direction when he put the screws on physical ed in the schools (which I did not appreciate at the time, I will readily admit), but the trend is hard to buck — some will argue that phys ed has nothing to do with the motivation to do a job well, but I would still defend the idea that ability to handle stress and value a job well done is connected with all kinds of discipline, including physical discipline.
    If I want to find a hard worker who values a job well done, and will sweat until it is done, I usually have to look for someone from a farm, or someone other than a WASP like myself.
    My opinion is that government needs to protect people from their own laziness, if they will not do it themselves. Until then, contractors look for someone who will do the work, and do it well. It is not just a matter of higher pay, though that is certainly involved. If I were in the Latinos shoes, I would do exactly what they are doing — move north and try to better my situation. And what better situation than employers looking for someone who will work hard, and having a hard time finding them elsewhere?
    I will freely admit to Dave that the government has to also protect our borders, but that is only part of the problem.

  34. Dave

    Herb, I agree with you completely. Herman Mazlow wrote long ago about what motivates humans. First and foremost are the basic needs of food, water, shelter, and security. The problem we have in this nation is that the government goes way beyond providing food, water, and shelter. WE will also provide medical care, transportation, day care, utility bills, and even a negative income tax for those who didnt pay tax in the first place. So we have people who say I could get up this morning, go to a farm (maybe it is 90 degrees outside) and work for an honest living, or I lay around and watch Oprah and get all this stuff for free. Guess how long it takes most to make that decision. So we have Mexicans who will work that farm. It is a real dilemna but if we eliminated most fo the welfare handouts the lazy would get out of bed, or starve!!!!!!!!

  35. Lee

    The first welfare to eliminate is that given to the illegal immigrants. A lot of them don’t come here to work, but to lap up the $32 billion a year it costs us in social services, on top of the $10 billion for law enforcement and prisons for the really bad ones.

  36. Dave

    On April 27, the House subcommittee killed the restaurant and public places no smoking law. May it RIP. Let the free market deal with it.


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