Everybody thank Lee. He’s offered a great list of the excuses that anti-public school types come up with in an effort to get everyone to be as irresponsible and nihilistic as they are.
It’s a list that he says "journalists" (a category that he means to include me, I suppose) "won’t ask themselves, much less the candidates." This, of course, is a fantasy on his part. We are constantly asking, "What works; what doesn’t?" and "What would you change?" What we don’t do is ask it in the obsessive manner of a person whose only interest in discussing the subject is that he doesn’t want to pay for it. You’ll see what I mean. It’s in the way he words his questions.
The other odd thing about the list is that we answer these questions and ones like them every day on the editorial page — do this, don’t do that; this is working, that isn’t.
Anyway, here are his questions, followed by the more obvious answers:
"Which programs don’t work and should be abolshed right now?"
Specifically? On the K-12 level, No Child Left Behind is an unwarranted intrusion of the federal government into a state function. Like all such Soviet-style, central-control devices, it is poorly thought-out, and takes little account of what really goes on in the classrooms across the land. It is also absurdly expensive. As far as I’m concerned, you can go ahead and close the federal Department of Education; there’s no adequate reason for it to exist.
On the higher-ed level, you have a really target-rich environment in South Carolina. Start by ditching some of the more recent idiocies, such as Clemson starting a program at the other end of the state devoted to the Hunley. Then eliminate a lot of the smaller, more duplicative campuses — USC Salkehatchie, for instance.
Generally? On the K-12 level, eliminate about 40 school districts. Put the state department of education under the governor. Let me know when you’ve gotten those huge jobs done; I’ll have more when you come back to me.
On the higher ed, put the whole system (which right now isn’t a system, but a loose scattering of separate fiefdoms) under a Board of Regents, which will assign complementary roles for each (surviving) institution, fostering excellence and eliminating duplication. (Does some of this sound familiar? Sound like stuff the governor is calling for? Yes. And he got a lot of these ideas from The State; we’ve been pushing them for about 16 years. The biggest reason we’re frustrated with the governor these days is that he pushes his ideological nonsense such as PPIC rather than putting his political capital more fully onto restructuring.
"Why did management make yet another mistake of starting such failed programs?"
Well, let’s see. The president started NCLB, along with Ted Kennedy, because he wanted to triangulate the Democrats.
The rest of that stuff started long ago under the deliberately fragmented form of government we have here in South Carolina, where instead of focusing on excellence, we waste resources giving everybody something mediocre, or worse.
"Can’t we save enough money by ending the failed programs to pay for the next batch of new programs?"
In higher ed, you could go a long way, but it probably wouldn’t be enough. And it’s not so much about programs as the fact that if you didn’t have so much duplication in institutions, you could invest enough to make the remaining institutions better. But you’d still be spending less than the states with excellent institutions of higher learning (North Carolina, for instance), and as long as you do that, you’ll stay behind.
With K-12, you wouldn’t come close. You’d save some money, but not all that much. And the suburban schools would be fine (they always have been) but you’d still have the problem that we’ve never invested nearly enough in our poor, rural communities.
If you don’t like these answers, grow up. Paying for such things are the price for living in a decent society.
On the federal level, you’d save a bunch, but I wouldn’t spend it on other educational programs. I’d put it toward paying down the national debt, or paying for the war. Those are proper federal functions that are going badly neglected.
"How much more money should taxpayers spend on government schools?"
Enough to provide the same opportunity for a good education in the rural districts as in the suburbs. As for your deliberate use of the word "government," which you mean as a pejorative — only government ever can or ever will provide universal education in those areas. The idea that "the market" will provide magical educational opportunities in places that are so poor, and so sparsely populated, that the market won’t even build a Wal-Mart is laughable. So what if you let the money follow the kid? There aren’t enough kids to attract the market. The market has already spoken with regard to these communities — it has dismissed them.
"What exact results will come from that spending?"
Slow progress. The conditions in poor, rural districts are horrific, and every step is taken against the tide. Bottom line is, folks who don’t want to spend on these districts just want to give up on them. We can’t do that. Even if you don’t care about them, they’re dragging the rest of the state down.
"How do you KNOW that the spending will produce those results?"
Know? How the hell can I or you or anyone else know? I know that we have no sane alternative but to try, just as I believe we have no alternative but to continue to try in Iraq. The task is horrifically daunting, and a lot up to now hasn’t worked, but a lot has, and we can’t give up; we have to try harder. I’m talking about Iraq. But the same applies to our educational challenges in rural areas.
"What will be the rewards for success of those programs? What will be the punishment for failure?"
The reward: A state that is no longer last where we want to be first. The punishment: A state that continues to be first where we want to be last.
"How will the taxpayers audit these programs to measure their cost effectiveness?"
The same way they do now — through a bewildering array of statistics and paperwork. Perhaps you missed it, but the whole point of the Education Accountability Act, which has been guiding education reform in this state since 1998, is precisely what you are asking for. This is how citizens (which is what I assume you mean by your choice of the word "taxpayers") do such things in a representative democracy: They create bureaucracies to track the functions of government. And then they gripe about bureaucracies. This tail-chasing habit seems to be a large part of our heritage in the American system.
Here’s hoping I’ve been helpful.
Related Posts
Those answers are mostly about federal initiatives and broad initiatives. I asked management questions about specific programs, and I received mostly generalities, and a few pet crusades like the Hunley. How much money should we spend? Brad says, “more”, and “enough”.
I don’t expect a journalist to know about many programs , but any candidate for principal, superintendent, school board, or state superintent should know a lot of them, and have ready answers.
The problem is that most of politicians go not much deeper than this, and the administrators don’t provide any audit and exit plans. They don’t set very specific measures of success, and their target dates are much to far out.
That vagueness, hand waving and pep talking is enough for those who want to see themselves as “backing education”, and the administrators use it to their advantage, from hiring worthless cronies as consultants, to building huge research facilities without any plan of what will occupy them. It is all a Field of Dreams delusion.
Our public schools in SC do an excellent job with and for the motivated students. The primary problem is outside the school, with liberal social policies which enable destructive lifestyles.
“I don’t expect journalists to know about many programs” – Lee
Lee, you have offered expertise on these education issues based on your survey of a small, select sample of teachers? Then you criticize a journalist for being uninformed?
You have also characterized many teachers as “not making education a priority,” dismissed administrators as “educrats” and negatively characterized our schools as “government schools.”
Your continued oversimplication of these issues and stereotyping reveals a lack of crtical thought gives credence to the characterization of managers as seen by the pointy haired manager in Dilbert.
Before you write even one more poisonous and thoughtless word about the profession, I challenge you to share with the readers your most recent visit to a high school and the in-depth observations you made. Or, share the results of a survey of teachers other than those you know in your family or at your wife’s school. Give us a report worthy of an engineer who, I assume, would make informed decisions based on objective data. You have proved me wrong before. Set the record straight now.
Brad,
I think that your post ignores the fact that we have bureaucracies to track the mostly uncontrollable, but not those things that we can change easily. So, we can track by race, gender, location, income level, etc., the academic progress of children. Great, but since success is mostly driven by factors outside of the school, it does little except to convince people that the “schools” aren’t doing enough. We don’t track spending very well, or track what it is spent on. For instance, are you okay with a school district spending money to pay a private grant-writing firm when they have a PhD on staff as a grants administrator? Are you okay with teachers keeping school laptops with them at home on maternity leave? Are you okay with schools paying interest on loans that they don’t need? Are you okay with principals unilaterally deciding to spend student activity funds on gifts for “principal day”? Why is it that we allow the “poor” districts to spend without oversight just because they are poor? There has to be a tipping point on spending. If more funds are really needed, and will really make a difference, fine. I just think we need to watch the money.
I think Nathan makes a very good point. I have seen similar incidents, the worst I’ve heard being the Richland One super who spent $5000 on a chair for his desk because he’s a “big guy.”
While cutting waste is certainly an important issue, it’s not a panacea. The money won’t change, as Lee pointed out, the students that are unmotivated. There are issues in the classroom, which do not involve money, that need to be addressed.
There is a lot more to wasting money on education than just cutting out frivolous waste.
1. Government schools suffer from the systemic problem of all large institutions: inflexibility that stifles the most innovative line workers (teachers and assitants) and managers (principals and staff). A hundred private education businesses offer a variety where different styles of work, management and innovation could find a home.
2. School managers are disconnected from the rest of the management world. They have very little training or organizational contact with superior management. They have to learn on their own.
3. Public schools run on a 19th century model that loses support from its customers every year. Since 1980, businesses have spent more on remedial and continuing education than almost the entire cost of public K-12 education. While it is politically incorrect for businessmen to criticize public education, they quietly put more money into filling shortcoming of the workforce provided by public schools.
Lee, those are great conclusions. Did your wife or your mother give those to you? I conclude it must be one of them because you won’t offer any support for your derogatory stereotypes of educators.
Randy, why don’t you educators have your own facts, and your own ideas for improving your own vocation, not just to your benefit, but to the students’ benefit?
I know you are young and don’t have much work experience, but perhaps you could pick up some ideas from the griping in the lounge.
Meanwhile, we parents and taxpayers can’t wait another 40 years for reform from the administrators and politicians.
I don’t have to work at every fast food joint to be able to tell which ones are well-run and which ones are lousy. It is the same with schools.
The more time we parents spend in schools, the more details we know of what is right and wrong, but the key is our having more motivation to make improvements than some on the inside seem to have.
What is missing in all of this is the fact that education IS a profession! There are actually professionals who work there and there is professional research that is constantly done to help the educational profession grow and produce better results. The thing that is so insulting with Lee, the governor, and all others that add to the monotonous drone of “insights” about education is that there is no research done on what actually helps students learn. Lee, Governor Sanford, others, please try this for a little while. It will not cost you much, and might just help you become informed enough to help us grow towards the success that we all want. Go to http://www.ascd.org and browse for a little while. This is the website for the Association of Supervision and Curriculum Development which is a nonprofit, nonpartisan group that actually cares about the success of students! Take a tour of articles and research found at this site that actually details how we can (and are) making schools better. Then go and buy some books – respected researchers and professionals such as Fullan, Schlectky, Marzano, Reeves, etc. who have put their lives and work into researching effective pedagogy and curriculum. By the way, this is what is occuring in SC schools on a daily basis – and is really what will help turn us around – rigorous expectations with best-practice instruction. Not the opinions of the ignorant (not a bad term, just meaning uninformed)and those that talk about myths and unfounded and undefensible beliefs based on their own experience or outside perspectives.
When I was in college (I’m old enough now to run for president by the way) I used to bartend. From this experience I learned that you can’t rationalize with a drunk. Lee, you are apparently intoxicated with ideas of self-grandeur and egocentrism.
It’s a shame that this blog, an opportunity to exchange meaningful ideas on issues that effect our state, is wasted as a forum for spouting diatribes, demagoguery, and hate as you have. Lee, my last statement I will make to you is a quote from a new Jetta commercial, “stereotypes are stupid.”
Lee is correct that a government system does basically invite issues that are problematic.
I worked for the SC Dept of Labor for 6 years and quit 2-3 years ago.
While I thought we managed our money fairly well, the incentive for employees to do well each year was nonexistent.
I was told my our director that performance based pay wasn’t possible because it wasn’t fair to all employees. Yes, that is exactly what I was told.
That is idiotic. Not giving employees raises based on superior performance it the exact definition of unfair – not withholding such raises because it would be unfair. – they have it exactly the opposite.
The result? One of my best friends still works there and he has received “exceeds” on his performance review for 8 straight years. In May he told me he “didn’t care” anymore becuase he knew he wouldn’t get a raise whether he got an “exceeds” a “meets” or a “below average” on his next review.
That is a problem in government.
David: I think you’ve touched on a great point. It’s magnified in education because teachers are so isolated – tucked away in a classroom. Some will work minimal hours while others will put in a 7-5 day and take home 3 hours of work. Both types receive the same pay. Similarly, a lack of accountability poses problems.
The problem to overcome in education is how we evaluate teachers. Few courses have quantitative variables to use for evaluation of teachers. We can use 8th grade test scores on the PACT, for example, as a measure of English and math teachers. We do not have such a measure for PE or art or social studies teachers.
There are those that want such rewards and accountability for teachers based on purely subjective measures or on grades. If I’m being evaluated this way, I can easily cater to these subjective measures and use grade inflation to paint a picture of success.
Thanks for your input David.
Teaching is not a profession, unless you have clients, and deliver results for a fee. Public school teachers are contract employees.
Justin and Randy keep playing diversion games, as if we haven’t seen these childish evasions before. “Go read all the research we haven’t read, then come back and report.” No thanks.
Why is there so much research in education, so many fads replacing fads, and so much unhappiness among the good teachers, students and parents?
“Stereotypes are stupid.”
“Teaching is not a profession.” – Lee
Webster’s – “profession – a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation”
This is exactly the problem with the Sanford followers like Lee – and then Mark himself. They believe that teachers are just “contract employees” who are doing something that all could do – notice their infatuation with “private” schools which often use non-licensed teachers and who don’t have to abide by the same guidelines as the public schools.
“Go read all the research we haven’t read, then come back and report.” No thanks – Lee
If this is the type of people who you think will lead our South Carolina students to a new heightened state of learning – then we deserve what we get.
Wow, Lee! I don’t think there is any other reason in arguing the point. You invalidate yourself and your positions quite well.
Lee: “Why is there so much research in education, so many fads replacing fads, and so much unhappiness among the good teachers, students and parents?”
Not to argue with Lee as much as to combat the misconceptions and myths that are so prevalently spouted out by the uninformed!
1. There is research in education because we are a profession…just like doctors and lawyers. Not too long ago a friend of mine had laser eye surgery. In and out in the course of a day. Ten years ago, this would have been a dream. Lee, go to a school near you. Check out what is being taught, what standards are being taught, the instructional practices being used – none of it is like that of 15 years ago. The statement that education goes from fad to fad is a myth. It is not based in fact. The amount of research that has been done in the field of education in the just the past 10 years has exponentially grown. It has to…for the students that we are teaching today, in the time of the world that we are teaching them, with the technology they use even as primary students, and in our culture where students are exposed to so much at such a young age – thank God there is research done to help us grow in our ability to effectively engage and teach them. Laura Ingalls does not work anymore.
2. “So much unhappiness among the GOOD teachers, students, and parents.”
This is at the root of all of the argument from the Sanfordites. As a public educator…I teach ALL students! I don’t look at the “good” ones and the “bad” ones. I don’t make excuses for what they do at home or elsewhere that keeps me from helping them learn. I accept the responsibility to help all of them. At my school, our teachers are far from “unhappy.” We are challenged to continuously grow as a professional learning community seeking to make a difference with students from all socio-economic and family backgrounds. We have no “bad” parents or students. We choose to care for them all with rigorous expectations and challenging instruction.
What will make a difference in our state is the same thing that will make a difference in our school. A sustained focus on literacy….non-fiction reading and writing on a daily basis….engaging students in reading to create a love of the printed word and the power that it gives you….collective autonomy through explicit goals and benchmarks to see if those goals are being met – above and beyond just the data required by NCLB….a focus on inquiry in learning through the use of effective formative assessment in all lessons….a fervent dedication to growing in the knowledge of our subject areas and an effort to connect the content to each other and to the world in which the students live….an unbridled passion to reach out to our community – seeking parent involvement in all ways by all parents/guardians/grandparents/foster parents, etc. I could go on and on. These are the things that will lead us to success. They are done every day across this state in various ways by schools dedicated to the students – all of them.
The second part of that question on research was why there were so many teaching fads that fail, replaced by more teaching fads that fail.
Education is not like electronics, where there has actually been a 20-fold increase in new devices in the last 20 years. Man has not changed since the development of modern languages and writing. Educational priniciples which worked 2,000 years ago still work today.
Most of the research is created by educators seeking masters and PhD degrees, in order to be paid more money. It is a ticket-punching exercise, a selfish game played at the expense of the good students.
Latest SC statute revisions defining contract employee status of various teacher job levels.
http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess115_2003-2004/bills/1133.htm
Justin: rational thought is lost on hate mongers.
What do you hate?
Change?
Demands for improvement to a school system where half the students leave as functionally illiterate?
The reality that the poor school districts already have huge amounts of state funding, so money is not real excuse for their poor results?
Taxpayers and parents daring to question expensive programs that did not deliver results?
“Stereotyping is stupid.”
Randy has officially become a troll.
Brad, if you are not a net taxpayer, you are not a real citizen.
Justin, what is your solution for 50% of students who leave the schools as functional illiterates? Why isn’t your solution being implemented already?
Why don’t you people listen to reason? You must be products of our socialist school system, indoctrinated to follow the lies. Big Brother is watching. Waiting.
Randy,
When can we see the PACT results broken down by teacher? Oh, we can’t. I went to the
district office asking for that data and was told it was not available to parents because:
a) It’s a personnel issue
b) It’s too complex for a parent to understand
c) It might be possible for a parent to figure out an individual student’s scores.
The last one was the most laughable one.
PACT is worthless. It is not about accountability, it’s about generating useless statistics.
Let’s take my son’s middle school, for example. E.L. Wright Middle School in Richland 2. In 2005, 28% of all 6th grade students scored Below Basic in English and 22% scored Below Basic in Math. For black students, the numbers were much worse (40% in English, 31% in Math). Those numbers were a couple percentage points WORSE than in 2004. Consider that this is a school rated “GOOD” on the SC report cards. Now, how many of those kids do you think were held back? I don’t know (because the district won’t tell me), but my guess is very few. Why? Because that would mean somebody would have to be held accountable (a parent, a teacher, or an administrator).
So what happens? The kids are pushed along until they reach an age where they are frustrated enough to drop out. What could be done? How about pulling all these kids out into intensive REMEDIAL programs just for English and Math — no P.E., no foreign language, no computer typing, none of the fluff. That would be an example of actually doing something to help educate these kids.
But since it would require innovation and an honest admission of the problem, it can’t happen.
Back to the wasteful spending discussion – the first area I would target would be the gross overspending on technology. Let’s see the “research” that shows how a $10K smartboard in every classroom improves the quality of education. Let’s see some kind of analysis on what all those PC’s and distance learning dollars have actually returned in measurable results in the classroom. The power of technology is barely utilized. I would estimate that fewer than 10 of the dozens of teachers my three kids have had over the past ten years have set up simple email lists or web pages (unless you could the ones they developed in a one day Build A Website class – complete with broken links, pretty pictures, and a list of homework assignments from 2003).
Doug: I think you have asked some very tough and very good questions.
I will have to give you an “off the top of my head” response for the moment.
The data from the PACT apparently has weaknesses. I teach hs math and the data is useful for me. It has been useful in some areas at the school and district level and is better than not having the scores, so it’s a step.
My opinion is that holding specific teachers accountable is a hot button issue for valid and invalid reasons. A major valid concerns is the students for one teacher can be dramtically different than that of another teacher hence the difference in scores can be a function of student ability as well as teacher influence. I’m not saying this can’t be addressed, I’m saying this IS a valid issue.
An invalid reason is that teachers have been treated as exactly the same and that’s the norm. Again how do we distinguish between job performance of social studies teacher and math teacher?
Regarding the smart boards, I won’t suggest that they are essential becaue I haven’t thought through the issue. I will suggest that it’s not as simple as looking at the test scores.
I am willing to bet that when we first started using calculators, there was no data on how calculators improve test scores. The effect may not be so direct. For example, a calculator allows us in a math class to spend less time on graphing functions which allows us more time for application. At one point, we used an algorithm to calculate a square root as one of the “basics.” When we started using calculators, such algorithms became obsolete.
Great questions Doug.
Doug:
one other point to make regarding teacher accountability. The parents/guardians have a tremendous amount of influence on student performance. This can confound the effect and ability of the teacher. For example, I have had students that do not do their homework, which impacts their grade. I call parents when this happens. Some parents do not respond and the grade drops. In this situation, which happens more often that people realize, the teacher is held accountable for low scores unfairly.
Randy, that is a good point and it also reflects on the points brought out by Lee and Doug regarding how to “fix” the problem. The trend has been to implement more technology and newer school buildings to modernize education and improve results. If the technology is not being deployed properly or maintained then it soon becomes shelfware instead of software. There is no accountability for following through on these types of programs and usually the administrators will ignore the failed programs and move to the next gadget.
I have a teacher in the family who is at a highly regarded elementary school. There are 3 classes at her grade level. Sadly, the two other teachers for the most part do a textbook coverage of a subject, hand out worksheets to the students, go on break, and come back and move to the next topic. These are worksheets they have been using for 10 to 15 years. They are boring the students into oblivion with these types of techniques but it makes work easy for the teachers. I think there is a lot of this going on but yes my knowledge is third party. This to me though indicates why there MUST be very thorough metrics on the teachers. Then let’s pay the good ones industry level professional wages.
THIS WAS A FAKE POST
“Why don’t you people listen to reason? You must be products of our socialist school system, indoctrinated to follow the lies. Big Brother is watching. Waiting.”
Some TROLL, unable to discuss the issues, has taken up the cheap trick of posting items under the names of others. Brad’s Blog apparently permits duplicate names with different e-mail addresses, and multiple names for one e-mail address.
I have found that modern high schools offer much higher levels of math courses, which increases the SAT scores for a handful of students, but the teaching of math fundamentals was so poor in middle school due to the fads, that most students don’t retain much knowledge. They had just crammed for the SAT. At age 22, a college English major who has not seen calculus since she obtained college exemption credits back in high school, can’t do simple geometry and trig.
It may be a good idea to stop all this exempting of college courses, and return to the common core of studies in college. Most of us had no problem graduating from college in 4 years or less, even with 138 to 148 required hours.
Brad, give up newspapering. Run for governor. I’ll be your freakin’ campaign manager if you’ll do nothing but scream what you just wrote hear at the top of your lungs on every television station in this state.
The major reason for the poverty in this state is the dismissive attitude of white liberals towards the immoral behavior which created these masses of abused children. Huge sums of money are pouring into these rural schools with little results, because the children keep dropping out and having more illegitimate children.
While the public school administrators and elites fight school choice, the SC Catholic diocese is planning to soon add a major new high school in suburban Columbia and at the beach (Myrtle area). The Catholic school system, which demands parental participation and discipline in the classroom, is thriving and has waiting lists and citizens, Catholic and non-Catholic, clamoring for more strong private schools. This tells or should tell the elites about the public attitudes toward their progress over the past ten years.
Or it might just mean that a lot of parents want their children educated with a respect of and for religious issues.
Ben Lippen, private school affiliated with Columbia International University (formerly Columbia Bible College) is also experiencing growing pains.
How can the same high school which produces 10 National Merit Finalists also have 40% who can barely read or do arithmetic by the 8th grade?
Can you imagine an automobile factory that produced Corvettes and Yugos? Don’t you think management might try to fix that Yugo line?
Lee,
Yugo
Then again, maybe some of you wouldn’t.
Me thinks Lee Should
Call Richland 1 or 2 tomorrow and go ahead and volunteer to be a mentor to an elementary school child this fall. (They are begging for them).
After all, he can really and truly make a difference in volunteering to be a mentor.
or maybe just arguing is the only thing he is really interested in.
David, thank you for your rational and reasonable posts.
I am a public school teacher and we will send our child to a private school 100% because we want the religious education. I’d like to see some data indicating that the private school populations are exploding simply because of a desire to avoid public schools.
Dave, did you really mean to dismiss an issue by laying blame on the “elites?” Are you wanting to make an issue that simple? Doug wrote an almost scathing submission but he offered support for his statements and left out lame stereotypes. The problems in education are far more complex and deserve greater thought and debate.
A big FYI to clear up some misinformation offered on this site. Taking higher level math courses at these modern high schools will have a diminished impact on SAT scores. The math covered on the SAT does not go beyond algebra 2.
David, I already have been there and done that. Also have asked principals to give me lists of children who need supplies, so I can provide them.
To clear up some misunderstandings, those who understand higher calculus probably will do better on the SAT than those who just took Algebra II. Back when I took the SAT, it contained calculus. My school only offered Algebra II.
The problem is the other 50% of students who cannot even do fractions and count change.
Lee, LOL how long ago was it that you “took SAT and it had Calculus.” Lee, here’s a novel idea for you, LOOK IT UP! http://www.collegeboard.com and find the section on SAT. You won’t have to guess any more, LOL.
Randy, you’re the one with 50% of students who can’t make change. I already got my National Merit money.
Contrary to the media spin that, “Our schools are on the right track, just keep spending more money…”
Here’s an interesting Power Point analysis of public education by Fredric J. Medway, Ph.D., Professor of Psychology at the University Of South Carolina. You can see he’s no radical opponent of public education, yet he observes the following facts:
* Only 48% to 53% (depending on the measure used) of South Carolina ninth graders graduate from high school. The United Health Foundation (2004) places South Carolina at 50th of 50 states in comparative graduation rates.
* Only 33% of South Carolina’s ninth graders enter college within four years following high school graduation, and only 20% are still enrolled for a second year.
* While African American students comprise 35% of the South Carolina elementary and secondary school population, they are only 22% of the state’s four-year college population, a statistic that reflects the relationship between college access/retention and individuals’ race and income (Carey, 2004).
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sc.edu%2Ftrio%2Fmedway_
edpipeline.ppt&ei=GoN_RI7CJ4egogKdtrjQAg&sig2=HomHuRYRt9ZA3t2j
Lee, look it up. http://www.collegeboard.com and you will find that functions is the highest level of math covered on the SAT. Exactly what calculus topics were on the SAT 30 years ago?
By the way, many calculus teachers will tell you that their students are rusty in their algebra skills.
Randy – I only use “elites” because it is a concise and direct way to group most of the educational leadership in this state along with the NEA. If that is a stereotype, so be it or you can provide a different definition. At the same time, I think the educators who have chosen the teaching career have the best intentions in mind when they do what they do. Brad has the best intentions also. The problem is the “elites” don’t want to lose control of the environment they manage and lead and school choice is way too threatening for most of these people. Their idea of radical change is to set classroom sizes from 25 down to 20, stuff like that. With these people, ten years from now we will have the same results we have now.
Stereotype – “A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image”
Bingo Dave!
That’s the way to improve education, overimplify the issue.
“…rusty in algebra skills..” ????
When 50% of them cannot do fractions, I don’t think they ever got much polish on their algebra skills.
Sorry, but I forgot the SAT test questions about an hour after I left AC Flora. It would be unethical for me to give them to you anyway.
How’d that Reading Comprehension section work out for you, Lee?
Also, didn’t you once disclose that you were farm-schooled?
Check out today’s news folks. We have news like this all the time, but the anti-school folks just ignore it, and keep touting two things: Our truly dismal dropout rate, and being last in SAT. (Never mind that we’ve been improving on the SAT faster than any other state.)
What was the exact source of these improvements? Was the cost justified?
Exactly what improvements do you expect from what additional amount of spending on what programs? Is that a worthwhile expenditure?
Which less productive programs can be discontinued for cost savings?
Lee AKA John Kerry: You are a FLIP-FLOPPER. You claim the higher courses help on the SAT and claim you had Calculus questions on your SAT then you claim you forgot what was on it an hour after you took it.
Also, you have admitted to using faulty information on here, which we knew all along.
Brad, I hope you dont count me as anti-school. I like to see successes in the public schools. However, increased private competition will magnify success in the public schools.
Randy, quit playing kiddie games of personal gotcha, because you haven’t got anybody.
Face the problems listed here, and try to come up with some ideas for improvement, instead of asking me about the questions on the SAT almost 40 years ago.
Hey, did you see where, a few years ago, some mother took the SAT for the hell of it, and made about 200 points higher than she had 20 years before. What does that tell you?
Lee: It’s not playing kiddie games to call someone out for putting out bogus information. If it was 40 years ago, then why did you put it out as meaningful information?
If you can’t support your statements, don’t make them. And, don’t blame someone for pointing out that you were wrong.
Okay, you recite some of the test questions off your SAT test. Show us how it is supposed to be done. Of course, you probably took it last week, but that’s okay.
Here’s a math problem for you:
Personal incomes are increasing at 4%. Inflation is 1.4%. School spending is increasing at 16%. Government already takes 50% of incomes from the minority of workers who actually pay taxes. How many years will it take for school taxes to take the other 50% of their incomes?
Here’s another math problem for you. I claimed that 33% of our hs students go to college. I also claimed that 50% of our hs students drop out. What percent, according to my statistics, of our students get a hs diploma but do not go to college? Why does the census report 55% when my industrial engineering training led me to 17%?
If 50% drop out of hs and 10% drop out then take and pass the GED each year, then what percent of students do not have a hs diploma? Why does the census report only 21% when my industrial engineering training led me to 40%?
The above post using the name “Lee”, is by blog saboteur tedfernandez@yahoo.com, who is posting under other people’s names.
Brad needs to fix his blog security.
Is he the same turd who sent me that unsolicited Agzar for House email to my account listed here? If so, it’s clobberin’ time!
Smells like the same troll who is sending spam mail.
Lee, your butt must be pretty big to supply all those statistics and information for you: 50% tax rate for tax-payers, 50% drop out rate in hs (I didn’t realize that 50% of SC residents didn’t have a hs diploma), calculus on the SAT…
If you don’t like the numbers, use the real ones in the same simple algebra problem.
It would be a good one for the PACT.
There are variations: various government entities are growing at different rates fast enough to eventually consume 100% of our incomes. It would be good for students to realize how many hyena agencies are fighting over their carcasses.
Lee: you are the one posting 50% drop out rate and 50% tax rate. Are you really standing by those stats?
49% of Americans who file income tax returns pay no taxes. So 51% pay all the personal taxes.
Of the small number who support the rest of America, many pay over 50% of their incomes in taxes of all types.
Not many years ago, until the Reagan reforms, some upper tax brackets were over 92% of income.
Richland 2 is setting up an Hispanic language program to lower the dropout rates.
Why?
Most of them are illegal aliens.
We want them out of the schools and out of our pockets, and off our streets. They are criminals.
Illegal aliens make up 24% of the population, but 89% of the crime. I know because I eat at those Mexican restaurants.
Dems want to give all illegals citizenship so they can vote as libs, social security so they don’t have to work, and a flag so they can burn it at their communist parades. I know because Ann Coulter told me.
Our government schools are failing us because illegals are ruining the schools because our government let millions in back in the 80s when …uhm…Reagan was president…and is letting millions in now with…uhm…Bush as pres…schools are bad because of all that money given to them by the state, controlled by… uhm… repub…uhm…
Above is more spam from tedfernandez@yahoo.com
Ted, why not use your real name and try to state your own ideas? Afraid of ridicule? The INS isn’t deporting anyone. You can come out of hiding.
Clearly (to Lee) he’s an illegal alien because he has a Hispanic surname. Of course, this means he’s probably free-loading off the 50% of South Carolinians that pay taxes (according to Lee) and committing crimes. Which is the fault of the libs (according to Lee) because they are secretly in charge of the government (according to Lee).
Math question:
With 21,000,000 illegal aliens, over 92% of them Hispanic, what do you think the chances are that the Hispanics you encounter are illegal aliens?
Social questions: Do you even care about criminals, drugs, and terrorists crossing our borders at will?
Why or why not?
21 million now!? They reproduce fast. Either that or you pulled another stat out of your hiney, but from what I’ve read on here you would never do that.
Hmmm, what are the chances that the Hispancis I encounter are illegal…I’ll ask my wife to verify that she’s really from the US despite her ancestery; I’ll ask the Spanish teachers at the school if they actually received college degrees from the US or are they also forged like all the other documents Hispanics use; I’ll ask Melendez the photographer for The State for his green card; I’ll give Dr. Aguado, Dr. Camacho, Dr. Oliveira from USC English literacy tests.
So, when you go into the school to “volunteer” are you sharing your prejudices with these young people or do they have enough trouble with your wife as a teacher since she only had “rinky dink” classes to prepare her for her nonprofession?
The most recent estimate of illegal aliens in America by Bear Stearns is 23,000,000.
The 2000 Census counted 8,700,000 illegals.
The Border Patrol says 3,000,000 a year are coming into America. You do the math.
The White House estimates that the amnesty proposals will result in 40,000,000 new citizens. The House Committee on Immigration estimates it would result in between 63,000,000 and 120,000,000 new Hispanics in the next 10 years.
That seems like something worthy of more than a few hours of closed debate in the Senate.
I guess all those Republicans aren’t doing the math either, of course they don’t have the resources like you do.
About your wife and your description of her lack of professionalism and weak academic background, what is her response to those claims YOU are making? I’ll assume she is not prejudicial like you.
I specifically said that not all teachers were weak in academic nor unprofessional in demeanor. Perhaps you are just insecure and overly sensitive.
Try to focus on the problems and come up with some ideas of your own, instead of being so reactionary. How about solving the problem of illegal aliens in our schools?
“rinky dink classes teacher take” – that’s inclusive of ALL teachers
“teaching is not a profession” – that’s inclusive of ALL teachers
Does your wife realize that you dimiss her career and education like this?
The same person who insists that only those who teach school are qualified and entitled to criticize or make suggestions for improvement … are unable to come up with any criticisms or ideas for improvement.
Maybe they are not teachers themselves.
Maybe they just didn’t put enough thought into their evasion.
So how does conversation go at the dinner table in the Lee household? Over pork chops, she tells you about her day in school you tell her “Honey, your diploma is as useful as an expired coupon for Spam and your profession is a step above McDonald’s french fry supervisor so let me tell you what to do.”
Does she know you belittle her and her friends like this?
Why is Randy so determined to spin the questions about money wasted by education bureaucrats into blaming the teachers?