Pay no attention to that pack of misleading nonsense Cindi Scoppe calls a column in today’s paper. I mean, the one that makes me look like some unethical jerk or something.
Consider that Ms. Scoppe is a journalist, and you know how they love to manufacture controversy where there is none. Or at least, not much.
Seriously, go read her column, and come back here to register your thoughts on whether you think what Justice Toal did was just plain awful, not a big deal, or somewhere in between. Cindi thought, and I agreed, that her column would be a good place to bring up issues that didn’t really fit in yesterday’s editorial.
For those of you who are too lazy to follow the link, essentially the column relates the discussion we had of the incident at our board meeting Monday morning, in which I took the "not a big deal" position. So I don’t look all that good in the column.
By way of extenuating circumstances, let me make the following points:
- My "not a big deal" position was taken within the context of my thinking that, if not for her previous hit-and-run after drinking (which WAS a big deal), we probably wouldn’t be talking about this.
- During the discussion, I was not aware that failure to leave a note was actually a violation of the law. I learned that later, but being stubborn, only shifted my position slightly. Once I knew that, I said there oughta be some wiggle room for when rubber bumpers barely touch, and you KNOW there was no damage.
- Cindi sets out two anecdotes from our discussion: One in which Warren Bolton was a perfect prince, doing the Honest Abe thing, tracking down someone he had bumped into. The other was when I was peripherally involved in an incident, and looked upon the guy whose car was HIT as a big baby who was raising a fuss about nothing. To clarify: Under the circumstances Warren described, I would have done what Warren did. In fact, I have done that. In my story, the other driver WAS a big baby; his vehicle was fine, and he was having an absolute cow about it.
Of course, Warren IS a perfect gentleman all the time. And Mike is all idealistic and principled, and Cindi studied real hard in school, and is way better organized than I. It’s a wonder they let a lax slob like me into the room. Good thing I’m their boss.
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We certainly would not be talking about this incident as much as we are if not for Ms. Toal’s previous accident. But she had it and we are.
I will admit that I don’t remember all the details of the previous accident, but I remember feeling like she got treated differently than I would have, because of her position.
That creates a cloud of suspicion in my mind about this accident.
I probably would have done exactly the same thing she did if in the exact same circumstances, if I really didn’t see any damage.
Part of me feels like she should have gone the extra mile any way and left a note.
She is the Chief Justice and has a responsibility not only to just follow the law, but also to build respect for it.
Given her previous actions and her position, this looks really bad. In a state where the powerful have long been allowed to skirt the law, I wish she would have taken the road less traveled.
I wish she had, too, particularly as it turned out there WAS damage. But I can’t say I would have acted differently under the circumstances — particularly since I had been under the impression that leaving a note was a matter of etiquette subject to reasonable judgment, and was not familiar with the statute.
That, of course, makes me wish even more that she had left the note, but still not particularly inclined to condemn her, even though the chief justice knows the law a lot better than I do.
She intentionally lied about it. Period.
It appears that Justice Toal was just following something she may have learned in law school:
“It ain’t illegal unless you get caught”
Apparently “Home Boy” is the pseudonym of Jean Toal. I say that because no one else would be able to say what Home Boy did, because no one but Jean Toal would know that.
Of course, there’s always the possibility that Home Boy is being presumptuous. Could that be?
At least Doug Ross, in addition to having the character to use his own name, had the intellectual honesty to say, “It appears that…”
Jean Toal should step down, or be removed. She has been a disgrace to her profession and our state, and to have her continue to sit as Chief Justice has been a travesty since the drunken driving hit and run episode. This incident, while sort of trivial taken by itself I guess, (I don’t know, if someone backs into YOUR car and does a grand in damage is it trivial?), this incident canNOT be taken by itself. It is only the latest in a long run of transgressions for which she is never punished or even asked tough questions about. This isn’t a monarchy, but with people like Toal in the ruling class, it’s getting close. Ed
I too appreciate Doug Ross’s willingness to use his own name when posting here.
I have no idea what sort of damage was done, but a thought keeps occurring to me, based in my own experience:
Have you EVER had damage to a vehicle assessed, with insurance companies involved, when the damage was estimated at anything LESS than $1,000?
I haven’t.
So what? A thousand bucks is a thousand bucks. It doesn’t matter that it was a small car bump up. If I came ovcer to your place and did a grand in damage to your property, could I expect to walk away? It may have been minor as far as car accidents go, but there she has a pattern of lawlessness and refusal to do the right thing that goes back a long way. She acts like she’s above the law and we stupidly let her get away with it. It’s that simple. She ought to have been gone 5 years ago. Ed
By the way, when I say “we” let her get away with it, I don’t mean ALL of “we.” The State has been shameful in its’ defense and support for this drunken, profane and flat out arrogant woman. The way this newspaper rallied to her defense 6 years ago when everyone in the state knew she should have been fired was a primary reason I stopped buying the newspaper altogether. You were flata$$ wrong then, and now here we are all this time later and the enablers and syncophants on the editorial board are still defending and covering for Jean Toal. Zero credibility. Brad, you can rant and hand wring about increasing and improving accountability and responsibilty in state government from now until kingdom come, but as long as you do this kind of thing you got zero credibilty, and you may as well stop. I don’t believe you really care…it must just be filler for slow news days. Ed
Sorry, I meant SYCOPHANT…but you get the point. Ed
So how do the people calling for Chief Justice Toal’s resignation feel about Andre Bauer’s breaking of the law?
I wish they would both resign.
Me too. Bauer has demonstrated that he has no more maturity than a six year old, and he should be gone too, but then of course, there IS the pesky little detail that the citizenry of this state re-elected him. So he at least can say he sort of has a right to be there. Jean Toal can claim no such cover. Ed
Ed, Brad and The State would never abandon a fellow big-government ideologue like this sorry excuse of a supreme court chief justice. If Andre Bauer had done this, or even worse Mark Sanford, The State would still be caterwauling by Thanksgiving but it’s Toal so no problemo.
I have seen Jean Toal driving like Mr. Toad on several occasions, as have Cindi Scoppe and and other friends of hers in Coble Village.
But what’s a little law breaking by those liberals who are doing so many other great things?
Lex, what are you talking about? I have posted 4 times in this string and each time I have excoriated Jean Toal without mercy. Once again, for the record, I think this drunken, profane and lawbreaking woman should be gone. Yesterday. And I think The State has been shameless in its’ defense and support for her. Brad is her chief toady. How you can look at anything I’ve said in this string and lump me in with Brad or The State beats hell out of me…but then again you’re probably a product of public schools, so I gotta cut you some slack. Ed
The Lt. Gov’s in other states have security details that, among other functions, drive. When Andre goes to other states he is often given a detail by THAT state. In South Carolina Andre does not have such assistance. In order to make appointments ALL OVER the state, he drove too fast. He should not have done that…but he did.
What you propose is that he not travel the state and give speeches, that he not meet with groups and listen to their concerns, and work in constituency service. You want the Lt. Gov to stay in the office and be an insider. To listen to politicians and lobbyist, and not to farmers and senior citizens and everyday people that pay the bills of SC.
He is my friend, and I know what he wants to do…and that is to serve. Yes, he wants and needs a state driver. He can’t use regular staff members as his days are often 12 or 14 hours long and he regularly returns from other parts of the state at 10:00 or 11:00 at night…only to start the next day again with an appointment in a different region of the state at 8:oo the next morning.
The governors KIDS are driven to grammar school everyday.!!! The Governors wife is driven everywhere she goes…many high (and not so high) ranking government officials are driven by “staffers” every day…made possible by the normal hours these people work, yet, you refuse the Lt. Gov a detail so that he might visit the people that he serves. I think your position is disrespectful of the voters and taxpayer of the state.
Chris, I don’t know who you’ve aimed your comments at, but you are wrong. I think it’s very weak and patronizing of you to attempt to rationalize, defend and excuse Bauers’s behaviour by telling us how busy he is and how important it is that he speechify all over the state. Every Lieutenant Governor we’ve ever had has been busy, and yet none of them have been so consistently immature and on the wrong side of the law as has Bauer. And to top it off, when he gets stopped at over 100 miles an hour, recklessly endangering others and flaunting the law, he immediately claims he is “SC #2” or whatever…in other words he immediately uses the privilege of his position to ooze out of the jam he’s in. This speaks directly and clearly to a horrible lack of character and a sense of entitlement not enjoyed by little people like you and me. He may be your friend, but he’s not a good leader. ED
Chris, and if you really want to talk about respect, how about a little from Bauer towards the people who elected him and deserve a leader they can look up to? Respect goes both ways, and I frankly don’t see where he has earned much from me. Ed
Ed, I wasn’t lumping you in with Brad et al (that would be too grave an insult!). I was simply explaining why Brad would never get on Toal’s case. Read my comment again.
“The governors KIDS are driven to grammar school everyday.!!! The Governors wife is driven everywhere she goes…”
Chrisw,
you’re wrong about that. The governor’s kids go to the same school as my daughter. While I don’t know who drops them off in the morning I have seen his wife pick up the kids in the afternoon many times, without a driver.
Ed…
As a matter of fact, you are incorrect. All of the previous Lt Gov’s in the modern era had the security detail! Only Andre’s predecessor gave them up… in a misguided attempt to curry favor with the public as he ran for Governor!
And LexWolfe…while I can not say that the Gov’s kids are driven everyday by state employees…I can say that on most days, a man driving a state owned and operated black Suburban, drives them to school!
Of course I do not expect either of you to vary your thought structure on this issue…as I understand that it would be highly unlikely for either of you to ever do that. But there are reasonable people that read this blog, and my comments were directed to them.
As a matter of interest, I would love for the press to have followed you guys around for age 28 to 38….I am sure your time would have been spent reading your Christian devotions and assisting the poor and needy, as well as helping kindly grandmothers across the street. The bottom line is you don’t like Andre, and so he should be damned. Without any respect to his office, or his successors, you find it easy to engage in the politics of personal destruction. It is a sad day here in America that its literate class has become so small minded. My comments about this issue would be the same had Democrat Robert Barber won the race…as the point is to have Lt. Governor that can exercise the office to which he was elected.
Chris, better invest in some reading comprehension classes. I am pro-Andre and in fact voted for him at least 4 times, in both primary and general elections (I don’t remember if there was a primary runoff election so I might have voted for him more than 4 times).
I’m also not a Christian.
Picking one’s battles is important. If my Senator, Greg Ryberg, had picked his battle correctly last year, he’d have run for Lt. Governor and handed Bauer his head. Instead, he got in the way of the T-Rav steamroller. What a waste . . .
Oops, sorry Lex.Maybe it’s ME that is the product of public schools…better cut me some slack. Ed
Chris, you’re assuming that you are one of the reasonable people participating in this blog. That may not be a good assumption in this particular case. I have generally agreed with you on other topics, but on the issue of Andre Bauser, we disagree. I don’t dislike him…I don’t even know him. But I do dislike his behviours, and I believe his behaviour points to a nasty character problem. You know him personally and like him, and I think that impairs your judgement about him. You clearly have no legitimate defense for his behaviour and you apparently cannot make a solid case that he IS a man of good character, while I assert with good evidence that he is not by citing how willing he was to use his privilege to get out of a jam. So what do you do? You attack me and try to get off the subject by attempting to make this about MY past. How typical. When you have no legit arguement, pound the table. In the end, this is all moot anyway. He isn’t going anywhere. I’m simply saying that we deserved better and that Bauer certainly isn’t anyone we should look to for inspiration going forward. Maybe he’ll stay out of trouble for the rest of his tenure. Then again, probably the next time he does something stupid we’ll see him use his position and privilege to get away with things they’d jail you and me for. He’s certainly done it before. Ed
Ed,
Any thought that my bit about Christian devotions, etc., was tongue in cheek? It was not a personal attack on your religion or beliefs. I am sorry if it appeared otherwise.
My argument is based on what the Lt. Governor has the OPPORTUNITY to do with his office. Bauer will not always be the Lt. Gov…someone else will have that position. And I hope that person has the tools to do the job properly…be they democrat or republican.
I am no longer very interested in partisan politics…it just does not interest me. We are having a crisis in government, both here in SC and in America. I just want to give our elected officials what they need to do the job required. If not, I want to boot them out with hesitation…
Chris
Chris, clearly you do not know me or anything about me, so I took no offense at the “christian devotions” comment. You don’t know enough about me to offend me with that kind of stuff. However, the problem I have with people like Bauer is the way they get away with acting causes people like me and many many others to get very cynical about government. Whether one likes or knows him or not, Bauer (on top of being a six year old) has demonstrated very clearly that he will use his position and privilege to his advantage anytime it suits him. And I HATE that. It is exactly what makes the government in this state so very sick, and what causes people like me to disbelieve anything the government says. Deep down we’d like to be able to believe in our government, and Bauer and people like him destroy our ability to do so. Ed
Chris, and it has nothing to do with partisan politics. Ed
ChrisW, to answer your question from a while ago: I don’t want the gov lite — either this one or any other I’ve seen — to do ANYTHING. It’s a pointless position, as currently constituted.
What I definitely, especially don’t want him to do is spend four or eight years being paid by the taxpayers to campaign full-time for governor.
And that’s what this one and every other one I’ve seen has done. This one just does it at a higher speed.
Brad: Your paper has avoided the supplemental incident report on Toal’s latest mishap for some reason. Read the report. She lied. You were quick to hang Betty Mabry with a heck of a lot less evidence. The Toal investigating officer, Lt. Crawford, LCSD, did not tell Queen Jean they had a witness when she twice told him “she was unaware of the vehicles having collided…” TWICE, Brad.
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