OK, now I see why everybody gets so upset about illegal immigrants from Mexico. It’s because what they have done is so thoroughly heinous. A correspondent on a previous post responded, after I had noted the absurdity of the idea that a non-police state would or could round up 12 million people and deport them, thusly:
We can’t catch all bank robbers, so let’s bring them out of the shadows
and get paper work on them too, Brad. And child molesters. And
murderers. Sure, we’ll get some paperwork on ’em, make ’em pay a fine,
and everything is OK, right? Is that your logic? We don’t do what’s in
this "compromise" for any other class of criminal, and it’s really so
ridiculous that no one even proposes it for murderers and child
molesters. Why are we even contemplating it for illegal aliens?
Let’s see — bank robbers, child molesters, murderers, mother rapers, father stabbers, and what else do we have here on the Group W bench? Oh, yes — a few people who walked across an invisible line in the desert to do menial labor for a pittance.
At that point, everybody moves away from the illegal aliens there on the Group W bench, but then they say, "And creating a nuisance," and everybody moves back and shakes their hands and they all have a fine time together talking about father-rapin’ and bank-robbin’ and pickin’ vegetables in the hot sun, and all sorts of groovy things …
What an odd crime to hyperventilate about. Kind of like jaywalking, only without the immediate threat of causing a traffic accident.
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Brad, I am the “correspondent” to whom you refer, and you could have at least been manly about it and had the guts to attribute it to me – it would have been OK to say it was mine, I am proud of what I said and I stand by it. Now, obviously there is a difference in degree between the crime committed by a child molester and the crime committed by a wetback (don’t get your panties in a twist, I used the term intentionally because it succinctly gets to the heart of the matter ~what they’ve done~ not because I deny their humanity). Anyway, I used the extremes of molestation and murder to highlight the absurdity of what people like YOU seem to want: Legitimization of an entire class of criminals. I ask again, is that what you support? I notice that you didn’t mention that I also spoke of bank robbers…why not? Is it that the crimes of robbery and illegal entry are closer in degree, and thus it makes my point more cogently? We can’t round up all bank robbers Brad…why don’t we just get some paperwork on them, make them pay a fine and get them out of the shadows? Isn’t this the exact analog to what you want to do? I think your making fun of my use of the obvious extreme is the tactic of a coward whose arguement has been destroyed. What do you think about that? Ed
Again, the point that devastates the horribly weak arguement that people like Brad and others posit is that we don’t do what’s in this “compromise” for ANY other class of criminal. Why are the Brads in this country so willing to sell out on this? And again, why do we need to do ANY PART of what’s in this bill so quickly? If we put this on hold for three years, there’d be no real harm done (or at least no more than is being done now), and we could focus on what should be a first order task: Securing the borders. What is so difficult to understand about that? Answer? Nothing. It is the right thing to do, and those who argue against it have motives other than the preservation of this country, IMHO. Ed
And another thing Brad…you cry alligator tears for the criminals who enter illegally and then have to “do menial work for a pittance,” but you completely and coveniently ignore the fact that legitimizing these people in their present situation essentially dooms them to work in these menial jobs for a pittance forever. At least securing the borders and returning to a meaningful immigrant screening process would go some way towards ensuring that people who emigrate to this country can support themselves and are not just a drag on support services like emergency rooms and social security. It may sound cold, but I don’t really have much sympathy for those who enter illegally and then have to work crap jobs. They’re here illegally, and our society (in other words…we) is (are) under no obligation to carry them. It’s as simple as that, or at least it ought to be. The only ones I see complicating it are people like you, Brad. Ed
By the way…what does the “Group W Bench” mean? If you’re obliquely and snidely (again with the cowardice…say what you mean, man!) implying something about George W. you can quit…he’s sold out the country on this one. I disagree with him completely about immigration. Ed
Brad stole those lines from the Arlo Guthrie movie and song “Alice’s Restaurant”.
I don’t see illegal aliens as being intrinsically criminal, rather, Globalization is criminal. Granting huge numbers of H-1B visas to foreigners when there is a glut of displaced American computer programmers is criminal. Turning America into a third world country is criminal. Displacing native construction workers with virtual slave labor is criminal. Allowing huge numbers of illegals to enter our already overcrowded country is criminal. Using Globalization to abrogate the rights of American citizens is criminal.
NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO have been disasters for most Americans. I’ve watched over and over again my coworkers lose their jobs to outsourcing. Inevitably, our citizens lose their good paying jobs to foreign labor and Americans rarely are allowed to obtain unemployment benefits (nationwide, only about 30% of former employees actually collect unemployment insurance “benefits”) because employers created the system, and it is at odds with the interests of American workers. All through the eighties and nineties massive layoffs and restructurings left huge numbers of American workers in bad shape. When people lost their good paying jobs, they couldn’t afford health insurance Cobra payments or even basic necessities, so as a last resort they turned to loan sharking credit card companies and payday lenders. Once people did find new employment, they inevitably worked for reduced pay and benefits and incurred staggering amounts of debt in the process. I’m not talking about just a few people here-I’m talking about many tens of millions of American people here. Average credit card debt is huge in the US, but the numbers are even worse when you consider that mostly Generation Xers and the working class suffered this devastating blow. I don’t know of a single non professional person (worker) in Gen X that has any hope of retiring because we are all mired in debt. Older workers try to achieve security through 401Ks and investments, but that doesn’t work either for most people because investment disproportionately rewards corporations and the wealthy. You’re becoming relatively poorer all the time.
Illegal immigration ruins the wage market for the service jobs that are left. Consequently, aside from regressive tax policies and outsourcing, illegal immigration is the final nail in the coffin for American workers. That’s why we have the banana republic style wealth distribution that we do-where the top 1% owns the wealth equivalent of the bottom 95% combined.
>Granting huge numbers of H-1B visas to
>foreigners when there is a glut of displaced
>American computer programmers is criminal
Tell me about it. The software project I currently lead consists of approximately 20 people. 16 of them are Indians on H-1B visas. Do they have some special talent that others do not? No. But they will work for 25% less than their American counterparts.
Brad credited Arlo Guthrie by linking to the song lyrics.
As my son says, don’t be a douche.
Hey, Mark, pay no attention to the snake oil salesman behind the curtain!
Amazing,isn’t it? How do you convince the working class and middle class that making the top 1% even richer is best for everyone? Start with inculcating hatred of government and worship of an easily manipulated “free market.” Then stir in religious animosities and racism. Season with nationalism and keep the terrorism panic at a low boil.
The immigration problem is where the plutocrat’s demand for cheap labor clashes with the nationalism, racism and nativism that they’ve fostered. Whoops.
Guess who wins– again.
Without the rejuvenation of a large scale progressive movement the U.S. will indeed be a banana republic colony of multi-nationals in our lifetime.
RTH – Does you son tell you that a lot?
Nope, Bill. He only says it about his contemporaries who’ve demonstrated their hopeless stupidity.
It seemed to fit your post perfectly.
I dont care about the last 12,000,000…give them green cards tomorrow and life will be just fine. It is the next 20,000,000 that bother me.
L Graham has gotten $3500.00 from me each of the last 2 cycles…but never again. When his names comes up…I will pass. The hell with a man that tells me I can’t have a dissenting opinion on a subject.
You’re absolutely right, yahoo. Send the money to me instead.
“a few people who walked across an invisible line in the desert to do menial labor for a pittance.”
Oh, boy, it’s getting deep in here.
Brad must be slipping, though – he forgot to add that they’re all blind and crippled children and forgot the part about the burning sand dunes.
I need a burrito.And big B,Bill,you don’t won’t to get me started about song lyrics.