What did you think of the debate?

My own quick take on it — WAY more interesting than the presidential debate. Higher energy, and more engaging.

Both did well. Of course, that means more in the case of Sarah Palin, because we knew Joe knew his stuff. Joe’s greatest danger was coming off as superior or condescending or ungentlemanly. Sarah’s greatest danger was coming off as she did with Katie Couric. She didn’t, and he didn’t. They both did a fine job.

But what do YOU think?

62 thoughts on “What did you think of the debate?

  1. just saying

    I had the impression that they both presented themselves in the way they wanted. I hoping we can stop focussing on the Palin phenomenon one way or the other now, and get on with just focusing on the issues.
    I liked the way she completely buried the Bush administraion.
    I’m wondering if anything will be made of her essentially agreeing with the idea of domestic partnerships. (I don’t know how else to take her not disagreeing with homosexual couples having the rights of heterosexual ones).
    I’m waiting to cruise the reputable fact-check sites tomorrow.

  2. just saying

    (apologies if this gets double posted – browser was acting oddly)
    I had the impression that they both presented themselves in the way they wanted. I hoping we can stop focussing on the Palin phenomenon one way or the other now, and get on with just focusing on the issues.
    I liked the way she completely buried the Bush administraion.
    I’m wondering if anything will be made of her essentially agreeing with the idea of domestic partnerships. (I don’t know how else to take her not disagreeing with homosexual couples having the rights of heterosexual ones).
    I’m waiting to cruise the reputable fact-check sites tomorrow

  3. Mike Cakora

    No gaffes on either side, but I think that Palin won and boosted the ticket.
    Biden maintained his self-control, so that helped him.
    On the ideological and logical sides I thought that Palin missed / let slide several opportunities where she could have gotten in some whacks because Biden was misrepresenting certain issues. I thought she could have emphasized Biden’s party’s role in the mortgage meltdown, but that never came up. Nor did she answer Biden on his criticism of McCain’s push for deregulation — Biden voted with McCain on most of those issues.
    As a Midwesterner (Illinois) and after having lived in Minnesota for several years, I enjoyed Palin’s mannerisms, accent, and simplicity of expression. While Biden tried to associate himself with the working class, I think she succeeded in doing so.
    Cruising through the channels and the spin, it looks like folks think that Palin did well, especially with men, but the Obama campaign maintains that her performance won’t help with women, and Obama will do well with them.
    The Hammer — a Palin critic — on Fox thought she did well on several points and carefully navigated foreign policy issues. Is he softening?

  4. Mike Cakora

    The tough thing about any debate is the sophistication / depth of knowledge of the audience.

    – Biden made a number of misleading / incorrect assertions.
    – Palin gave spoke about energy policy in response to questions that had nothing to do with that?

    How many voters / viewers noticed?
    The big question is whether tonight’s debate took the issue of VP off the table. If it did, it’s now up to Obama and McCain to make their cases without distractions.

  5. Brad Warthen

    Well, she did. She’s apparently an awesome crammer, and retains what she crammed.
    Yeah, Joe tried hard to connect himself to middle and working classes — that is, after all, his background — but basically what he was trying to explain was that he, too, was what she obviously WAS in that department. It put him in a catchup mode, but it wasn’t all that glaring; he did fine.
    As for the “accent” thing — do people from cold climes just have to overpronounce everything, or what. She sounds like Francis McDormand in “Fargo,” speaking dialogue from an “Andy Hardy movie.” I kept thinking she might at any moment offer to “put awn a SHOW out in the barn” to raise money for our continued deployment in Iraq. She’s just got that kind of “Golly we can do it!” kind of thing going on.
    While there were no “I knew John Kennedy moments,” it was one of the more interesting debates I’ve seen in the last few cycles.

  6. wtf

    Here is what a few liberals from the Bush Administration said about the debate.
    “The consensus from the debate seems to be that while Sarah Palin exceeded the exceedingly low expectations set for her, Joe Biden won the night. The word comes from former members of the Bush administration and even John McCain’s former press secretary.
    Torie Clarke, who worked with McCain back in Arizona and with the Bush Administration’s Department of Defense, had the following remarks on ABC:
    “I’m so surprised at what we are talking about before and after the debate. Before the debate the speculation was all on Sarah Palin, how well can she do, can she answer the tough questions? Nobody was paying attention to Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden had his best night tonight. He came with one mission, and that was to go after John McCain, and he did it, backed up by facts. I think he did a better job tonight of tying McCain to the Bush administration than Obama did last week.
    Matthew Dowd, who worked for George Bush’s communications team while in the White House, followed Clarke and he too agreed that the Delaware Democrat took the evening.
    “I think, you know, I agree with her on this. I think Sarah Palin did reasonably well. The death spiral she has been on for the last week, she survived. She’s lived another day. She did well. But I think, when the polls come out in the next two, three days, Joe Biden won this debate.””
    Biden clearly did a better job of going after McCain who is afterall is the headliner of the ticket. Biden called Palin out several times for which she had innappropiate retorts or confusing responses to say the least. Biden came across as someone who knew the issues in detail whereas Palin came across as someone who just brain-dumped answers from her crib-sheet hoping something would stick. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn’t. I think the word I’m looing for is choppy.
    Here is where I think Biden won. Several times Biden cornered Palin on uncomfortable topics for her (civil union topic, windfall tax on big oil..) forcing Palin to verbally come out in the debate against positions she and John McCain were previously on record against.
    I bet Exxon-Mobil made a few phone calls to McCain last night.

  7. clif

    It is encouraging to see two candidates to stand their ground on everchanging and ever arising important issues. A good example of what American holds for the world.

  8. James D McCallister

    Palin made me think of Andy Griffith in “A Face In The Crowd” with all of her folksy BS.
    “Rednecks, crackers, hillbillies, hausfraus, shut-ins, pea-pickers – everybody that’s got to jump when somebody else blows the whistle. They’re mine! I own ’em! They think like I do. Only they’re even more stupid than I am, so I gotta think for ’em., you just wait and see. I’m gonna be the power behind the president!”

  9. george32

    I thought Pallin’s cuteness with the camera, the winks, etc. was marvelous, but it sure did not contribute to my respect for her as heartbeat away from a cancer survivor presidency. She reminded me of a cable channel reality host or a student taking over for the teacher on what of those seniors in charge days they used to do in schools I have seen/heard in person such female leaders as Margaret Thatcher, Condi Rice, Christine Whitman and Liddy Dole (little heavy on the charm) and remember watching Golda Meir on television as a youth. Each of them had a dignity and presence that just exuded substance, stature and depth. Would Palin be more fun at a party than Dole or Rice as a guest: probably, but so would the woman spoofing Palin on tv. Reading the transcript gave me a better impression of Palin than watching her performance.

  10. bud

    Palin did ok. But was this really Palin? It seemed as though she came into the debate with a set of talking points that she was going to throw out no matter what the question was. The whole energy thing was the most important. Then there was the point about Biden constantly looking back, rather than forward. That was clearly a contrived McCain talking point to try and deflect any comparison of Bush and McCain. It failed to do that IMHO. To suggest the past 8 years are irrelevant in this election is a ludicrous point to make. After all we’re dealing with 3 senators who have voting records and their association or lack thereof with the current failed administration is very important. Biden deflected that well. Palin tried again later but it seemed flat the second time.
    On strictly debating points Biden won hands down. He showed that he’s capable of stepping into the presidency should the need arise. Palin did her folksy, hockey mom thing. That appeals to many but to me it’s quite frightening, especially after the Bush years. Wasn’t he suppossed to be the guy you would like to have a beer with? We know how that turned out. I’d prefer a serious, experienced person in the role of VP, not a hockey mom.
    This debate was no game changer. So now we move to the final chapter in the election cycle. Whoever wins the next 2 debates is likely to become the next resident of the White House.

  11. Claudia

    Palin’s “folksiness” doesn’t impress me any more than George W. Bush’s does. I’m fed up with listening to American leaders use a mode of address to convey that they are “just like us”. I don’t want a leader just like me or any of the other people I know; I want a transcendent one. I want a leader that not only sounds presidential, actually is presidential. I don’t want to feel like bending an elbow with my president – I want to feel secure in the knowledge that the frighteningly vast power of America is in the hands of someone that is smarter, more educated, and more deliberative; someone who actually understands history and has an idea of how the future will be likely to emerge. I want wisdom in my leaders, not a “y’all come” attitude.
    Palin’s twinkly, sparkly, winky-wink, cliché-soaked mannerisms and verbiage just irritate me; I wonder what the powerful people who actually rule this planet think of them.

  12. JImmy

    Ultimately irrelevant. Key board strongmen and women will claim their party won the real winner was the Palin/McCain ticket. They just had so much to lose last night and everyone expected her to fall on her face. She performed very well and held her own against a seasoned politician. Will the Palin/McCain ticket see more voters, that is yet to be seen, but I would certainly think last night stemmed the tide of outgoing voters. She returned to her convention form.

  13. Jimmy

    One thing more. I think Palin totally dropped the ball in allowing Biden to continue to claim that McCain’s penchance for deregulation caused and/or worsened the financial crisis. She should have pointed out that McCain cosponsored the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005. During his supporting comments to the bill he said the following:
    “Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.
    The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.
    The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.
    For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.
    I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
    I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.”
    Really sounds like a guy who thinks deregulation will fix everything doesn’t he. Bringing two quasi-public companies under direct government control is borderline socialist. He was a problem though and took some initiative to fix. According to Biden, Obama “wrote a letter”.
    I think the American public needs to understand the falsity of the statements Obama/Biden are making about this issue. Especially since they claim ownership of this issue and Americans for some reason seem to believe them.

  14. James D McCallister

    Yes, she performed very well — if in fact she were in the running for Miss Teen SC. To wit, this response about energy policy (from the transcript):
    Palin: “That is not so, but because that’s just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy — your ticket’s energy — ticket also. I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan, again, that was voted for in ’05.”

  15. Richard L. Wolfe

    I never thought that I would live long enough to see another politician that was more full of s..t than Bill Clinton, then along comes Joe Biden. ” Barrack and I see no constitutional restraint to gay marriage.” ” We support marriage as only between a man and a woman. ”
    White man speak with forked tongue. ” Dick Cheney is the most dangerous vice president in history. ” ” As vice president I will be right there, ( telling the little moron what to do, ) I will sit in every cabinet meeting. ”
    The candidates of change sound like the same old politics of parcing and lying as usual to me.

  16. Doug Ross

    When Palin said her family was just like the typical American middle class family, I looked at my wife and said, “Our daughter’s pregnant?”
    My wife doesn’t follow politics (probably because I follow it too much) but she sat through the whole debate last night. I would characterize her response to Sarah Palin as “You’ve got to be kidding me!”
    I just can’t believe we live in a country where people think Sarah Palin would be a capable President of the United States.

  17. Bubba Fetner

    Palin nailed biden when she reminded him he said he would be proud to run with McCain and of Obama the Presidentcy is not on the job training.

  18. Robert

    I think your link to a supposed Palin video installs a Virus on the person’s computer, I would expect better from a News Paper!

  19. bud

    Doug makes a good point. If you had been in a bubble for the last month and saw Palin for the first time last night you would have been aghast at how bad she was. But the expectations for her were sooooooo low she had to come out ahead. It’s scary when a woman running for the second highest office in the land can call out kids watching from a classroom and not get hammered for the trivial nature of the comment. But that’s where we’ve come in American politics.

  20. BIll C.

    Palin did a wonderful job, it’s obvious just by reading what the liberal Democrats are saying on just about every forum or message board. It doesn’t take a genius to see that they’re running scared… that Palin wasn’t the pushover they had hoped for.
    Brad, on a serious note… is there an “ignore” feature that you can implement on this blog? I’d sure love to have one and not have to read what “bud” has to say. To call this guy ignorant would only compliment him.

  21. Bill C.

    When Palin said her family was just like the typical American middle class family, I looked at my wife and said, “Our daughter’s pregnant?”
    Posted by: Doug Ross | Oct 3, 2008 7:55:29 AM
    Doug, what if she were? Would you shame her into hiding, would you insist she run to the nearest abortion clinic, would you be ashamed to call her your daughter? Or would you deal with it like an adult? Teen pregnancies happen whether you like it or not… Palin’s daughter isn’t the first nor the last.
    Besides, I find it despicable that people will use her children as a tool against her. Come on Doug, why not ask if your son/next child will have Down’s Syndrome. Teen pregnancy is too easy I guess.

  22. James D McCallister

    I find it despicable that they are parading that poor kid around. Is that the best environment for a special needs child? Being dragged around like a campaign prop? Disgusting.
    And as for an ignore button: That’s the problem with such naked partisanship. You can’t stand to hear anything outside of your own echo chamber. Disgusting, redux.

  23. Norm Ivey

    I watched the debate with the panel at The State last night. If I had been home, I would have turned it off in the middle of one of Palin’s rambling non-answers and put in my DVD of John Adams. She did well because she didn’t embarass herself? Is that what we want in a VP? I want a person who can assume the presidency.

  24. Bill C.

    James… the “families” were invited to come up on stage after the debate. If the child didn’t have Down’s Syndrome would that have been better for you? Would he have been less of a “prop”? Would you prefer he be kept back stage during this historical moment in his family’s history? Isn’t that what the Kennedy’s did with their daughter? Maybe that’s how you would have handled it with your family, but Palin isn’t embarrassed by her children. The only thing disgusting I saw last night were those ill fitting dentures Biden bought at Sears.
    You sound pretty “disgusted” this morning… maybe after your morning constitutional you’re attitude will improve.

  25. bud

    Bill C. give me an honest answer here, not some right wing spin. If Barack Obama’s daughter had come up pregnant instead of Sarah Palin’s would you defend Obama in the same way you defend Palin?

  26. just saying

    As someone who generally votes a bit more democrat than republican, I don’t see why her daughter’s pregnancy is that big of a deal… except in one context. Whenever Palin tries to bring up abstinence only education or leaving it up to the parents the audience should laugh hysterically until she blushes and stammeringly changes the topic.
    I think the same thing should happen whenever any divorced politician brings up the sanctity of marriage or protecting marriage.
    But why should someone on the right be expected to give the same defense to the blemishes on a left candidates resumes as to one on the right? All I expect is that you don’t attack the other side for what you forgive in your own.

  27. Doug Ross

    Bill C,
    If my daughter was an unwed pregnant teenager, I would not try to pass that off as anything but a sad shame.
    I would not put her on stage.
    I would not parade her around with her boyfriend.
    I would be embarrassed and I would hope my daughter would be too. However she chose to deal with the embarrasing situation, my wife and I would be there for her instead of using her as a prop.
    But then I don’t expect my daughter to end up in that situation because she doesn’t have the same background as Palin’s daughter apparently has had. My wife didn’t go back to work three days after she was born — she waited five years. My daughter doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke pot like Palin’s daughter does and she doesn’t hang out with a self-proclaimed “redneck” like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend.
    Sarah Palin does not represent my middle class family. You can embrace her version of “family values”. I won’t.

  28. Doug Ross

    Correction – Palin’s boyfriend did not describe himself as a “redneck” on his Facebook page.
    He described himself as “a f—-g redneck … who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes. But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some sh*t”
    Sarah Palin must be SO proud of her soon-to-be son-in-law.

  29. randy e

    Scary. No, not Palin, the reaction of astute citizens on this blog.
    Palin didn’t crash and burn so she championed as a strong possible VP? She regurgitated some talking points like a middle schooler in a school play. What substance did she offer? “White flag”, “maverick”, and “taxes” along with her “shout out” and winks make her someone we want dealing with Putin?
    Fineman of NEWSWEEK said it best, she was like a badger who grabbed on to Biden’s pant leg.
    Here’s what I found most telling. Biden went into 2 long diatribes upbraiding McCain’s maverick status and his record and Palin made no effort to stand up for her candidate. Why? Either Biden was accurate or she doesn’t have the chops to move beyond her script. When she made lame attempts to pin war funding and tax lies on Obama, Biden easily and fluently refuted her.
    I believe those on this blog are talking up her up because they want to win the election. As Biden said repeatedly, “I am not hearing how McCain is any different from Bush.”

  30. Bill C.

    Bud – I would have the decency not to discuss his children’s personal matters. Is that an appropriate enough answer?

  31. george32

    if nothing else Palin’s daughter’s pregnancy have silenced the sneers we used to sneer about the Obama and the Dems being the party encouraging unmarried teenage pregnancies like that of Jamie Lynn Spears. I don’t think baby daddy needs to be paraded around unless/until he becomes part of the family. The Johnsons, Nixons and Fords did not feature significant others until it was official. I do admire Palin and her husband for undertaking to raise small children at their ages as I the Edwards and Senator Courson. My wife and I were considerably younger and still often found ourselves exhausted, as well as enchanted by our children. I still have a jarringimage of Margaret Thatcher winking at Gorbachev and Yeltsin so I hope the performance last night was tailored to our American tv audience as she acted the same way in her debates during the campaingn for Governor of Alaska. The leader of France and his new trophy might find that appropriate, but I am not sure the female Chancellor of Germany would be impressed.

  32. bud

    I believe you Bill.
    But sadly, right-wing spinmeisters like Bill O’Reilly have a double standard. Bill O had no problem blaming Jamie Lynn Spear’s mother for her pregnancy but staunchly defended Sarah Palin and Bristol privacy rights. There is a double standard in politics and, I’ll admit, it’s not always from the right.

  33. Lee Muller

    McCain and Palin are not perfect, but they are running against someone raised as a Muslim, who has written of his hate for America, hate for whites, hate for Jews, whose entire circle of friends are radical socialists and Black Muslims. His running mate is Joe Biden, a career politician who just stuffed the bailout of a corrupt mortgage bailout with all the pork he could.
    Neither Obama or Biden has created any wealth, run any business, or made an honest dollar in the last 15 years.

  34. Brad Warthen

    Anybody know what “robert” meant about the video and the virus?
    Norm, it’s interesting that you prefer watching John Adams to Sarah Palin. So would I, but then I have Federalist tendencies. Do you? Or is it a matter of being turned off by the populist, “anybody-can-be-president” mentality that causes people to cheer for Mrs. Palin (as am I, being an admirer of Adams). I know you’re an Obama supporter now, but did you earlier support Clinton, or Biden? I would expect an Adams admirer to prefer the more experienced candidate. But then, I preferred Obama (to Clinton, not to Biden), and no one admires Adams more than I do.

  35. Bill C.

    Doug – I’m sure you’re daughter is a little princess and that she has never lead anything but a pure and clean lifestyle and is nothing short of a perfect angel. I’m assuming your daughter is of high school age, otherwise comparing your daughter’s lifestyle to Palin’s daughter is mute.
    I’m not surprised to read that if you hypothetically found yourself in the same situation as Palin is in with regard to her pregnant daughter you would find yourself “ashamed” and would make your daughter well aware of it. I bet you’d go as far as to avoid and shun her from any special family moments… “Sorry, you can’t come on stage with the rest of the family because you went and got yourself pregnant… now go back and sit someplace off camera”. I feel sorry for any kid in your household if this is the environment they have to grow up in. It just shows Palin can take a unexpected situation and deal with it rather than hide from it like you admitted you’d do. I believe the psychological term for this is “denial”.
    Doug, did you grow up in an urban or rural environment? I grew up in the rural midwest… I rode dirt bikes, I hunted and fished, I enjoyed skiing (before snowboards), I played high school hockey… I didn’t consider myself a “f#cking redneck” back then, but I’m sure I wrote or said plenty of stuff that I would now regret or laugh at today.

  36. george32

    unless you count what Keating did with McCain’s help how do you figure a man with over 50 consecutive years (3rd generation at that-i believe it is called welfare dependency) slurping at the public trough has created wealth or run a company. Certainly trophy wife’s father did with his beer distributorship but that is like giving Bush 2 credit for the fact that his father ran succesful businesses (Reagan never did) and all of his failed.

  37. Doug Ross

    Bill C,
    Whatever my teenage daughter is, she’s not mute.
    Oh, you meant “moot”.
    Hey, if you think teenage pregnancy should be valued, go for it! (Well, don’t “go for it” exactly).
    After you look up the word “moot” maybe you can look up words like “discretion” and “humility”.

  38. Bill C.

    Having thought about it, it must be frustrating to be a Democrat in the state of SC. No matter how much you hate your opponent, they are almost guaranteed to win the election. If this affected me as much as it does some here, I’d have to consider moving to a more liberal state.

  39. Lee Muller

    george32 is beyond ignorant – his head is filled with sound bites of false history. No wonder his is angry.
    * GW Bush inherited about $250,000, bought into a failing bankrupt franchise, helped turn it into a pennant contender, and became a millionaire.
    * GW Bush’s father was in the oil business, started by his father, in the far wastelands of Midland / Odessa, Texas.
    Poor george32 probably still believes those long-debunked lies Gore put out about Bush not attending National Guard drill, etc.
    Never mind that 3 investigations of Keating and his bank found no improprieties by Senator McCain. Democrats “reprimanded” McCain as cover for John Glenn and other Democrats who actually received MILLIONS of dollars and did not repay it. Glenn still owed vendors over $2,000,000 from his last campaign, when he left office.
    george32 thinks McCain being a Navy officer, and his father and grandfather being admirals and war heroes, puts them all “on welfare”, just like Obama was. No one is dumb enough to believe that, even if they think it is cute to say.
    Maybe Obama can print up some citations and hand out medals to those on Food Stamps for 2 or more generations.

  40. Bill C.

    Doug, please forgive me for a spelling error, please don’t shame me as you would your daughter.
    My views on teen pregnancy are that if and when it does happen, you accept what has happened, you deal with it the best you know how, and life goes on… just with at least one more person involved. What I do know is you don’t stop loving your child, nor do you treat her like an outcast. But that would be how we’d handle it in my household, which sounds like a 180 degree difference from yours. Do you remember what it’s like to be a teenager? Or did your parents lock you up in your room too.
    If Palin inviting her daughter on the stage with the rest of her family was using her as a “prop” then I guess Biden should have left his perfect family off stage. Would you, in the same situation, not allowed a specific family member to join you? Do you have immediate family members with whom you are embarrassed or humiliated to be seen with, to the point of letting it be known on national television? If Palin didn’t allow her daughter on stage, you liberals would be all over her for trying to hide her “pregnant daughter”… it’s a Catch-22 situation.
    Palin’s daughter is getting married to this guy isn’t she? Do you have any family members or friends who have had to deal with this exact situation or did you all stay virgins until your wedding night?

  41. penultimo mcfarland

    “Yes, she performed very well — if in fact she were in the running for Miss Teen SC.”
    So, James, being the nice guy you are, you would rather have the guy debating her, who told at least 10 different lies while he distorted what facts he didn’t misrepresent.
    Your kind of person, huh?
    If we had real news media in this country, instead of Chris Matthews and Katie Couric, Biden would probably be dropping out off the ticket today.
    His characterization of McCain’s votes might be grounds for a slander suit.

  42. some guy

    Bill C.,
    I imagine it is very frustrating for Democrats in South Carolina.
    But, you know, no one’s ever satisfied, it seems. If being in a nearly one-party, GOP-dominated state was so wonderful, then why couldn’t the GOP governor and the GOP-controlled legislature get along?
    Why does one group of Republicans have to bring in money from libertarian Howard Rich to try and take down other Republicans? Why the attacks on so-called RINO’s?
    So, yeah, it’s been tough for Democrats around here. But it doesn’t appear that Republicans are so happy these days, either.
    Regarding the debate, I thought Sarah Palin did pretty well. She got in a few zingers, and she didn’t stumble too much. She appeared confident and tough. Palin uses a few words a whole lot, seemingly just thrown in almost as if it sounds smart or pointed: “also” and “there” and maybe one or two others. And I wasn’t wild about the winking and the “shout out.” Still, she did a good job.
    But I thought Joe Biden was very, very sharp and commanding. He appeared FAR more ready to lead, in my opinion.
    And Biden clearly had the most emotional point in the evening. I thought it was genuine and a legitimate response about the “real people” talk. Palin’s immediate response after that point in the debate: more “maverick” talk.
    On the whole, both Vice Presidential candidate did well. I think — and it seems many people agree — that Biden was clearly the more impressive.

  43. L.R. Gardner

    Sarah Palin reminds me of some of the clueless students in my Rocks for Jocks class. She passed her debate class with a D only because of the grade curve and overall grade inflation. I am terrified to think that she might become President of the United States. It would mean the continuation of the current president’s cock-sure incompetence and biblical certitude.

  44. bud

    * GW Bush’s father was in the oil business, started by his father, in the far wastelands of Midland / Odessa, Texas.
    He also collarerated with the Nazis.

  45. Bill C.

    He also collarerated with the Nazis.
    Posted by: bud | Oct 3, 2008 11:54:05 AM
    Bud… did your mother drink heavily while pregnant with you?

  46. Lee Muller

    FDR copied a lot of his programs from Hitler and Mussolini, which had far greater impact than any individual businessman trading with the Nazi government at the time.
    Al Gore, Sr worked for Armand Hammer, who managed world trade for the USSR. That’s how Al Gore, Jr got in so tight with Chernoyrdin and Putin.
    Remember, in the 1930s, liberals in America were hailing Hitler. The NY Times lauded Hitler and Mussolini.
    Henry Ford built a truck plant in the USSR, and hundreds of communist UAW workers volunteered to set up the factory and train their Soviet comrades. Stalin ended up killing most of them, but “liberals” don’t want to know about that.

  47. bud

    Here’s an excerpt from the guardian:
    “George Bush’s grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
    The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
    His business dealings, which continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.”

  48. Phillip

    James D, thank you! for citing one of my favorite movies, A Face in the Crowd. That was exactly what I was thinking about as Palin hammed up her performance, Lonesome Rhodes!
    I’ve watched some extended excerpts of Palin’s Alaska debates. She doesn’t throw in all those “heckuva”s and other folksy bits. Just another performing politician.
    Most revealing: her line about ignoring the moderator’s questions and talking directly to the American people. And then her advocacy of the Cheney powergrab. Her philosophy: political leaders should be able to utter their talking points and their talking points only to the public. Any questions or challenges will be ignored, and the Official Party Line will be uttered. This is democracy, Putin-style.

  49. Lee Muller

    The Guardian is an communist newspaper, now just calling themselves, “socialist”.
    It is hardly a credible source for anything.
    Besides, communists murdered way more people than the Nazis. If you like socialism, you are kin to both of Stalin and Hitler.
    That’s why Al Gore gets a pass for his family money coming from Occidental Petroleum and its handling of oil sales for the USSR.

  50. Norm Ivey

    I’m a Federalist in that I support a strong national government and abhor debt. I believe the United States is a nation rather than the United States are a nation. I lack any deeper understanding of the philosophy. Can you recommend a layman’s book? Federalism was not the reason for my comment.
    I’m offended by the anybody can be president attitude that surrounds Ms. Palin. I concede some argument that Senator Obama is also a product of this phenomenon. The difference is that Obama has had nearly two years of national exposure to present his views, to display his decision-making process, and to demonstrate his ability to perform in times of difficulty. In the beginning, when I was still an uncommited independent (a true independent–I have voted in every election since Carter-Reagan and have yet to pick a winner), I admired Biden, Dodd and Mike Gravel. I didn’t become fervently for Obama until the field was down to just three. I went to hear him speak the day before the SC Primary, and I was won over. I read both of his books just to be sure before I contributed money to the campaign. I would have gladly voted for Clinton had she been the Democratic party’s choice this year.
    On the Republican side, I liked Ron Paul, but saw little possiblity of that happening. Surveying the rest of them, I thought the only one who had a chance of defeating a Democrat was McCain, and I was concerned when it became apparent that he was likely to be the nominee. I believe the Republicans have managed things for long enough and poorly enough that it’s time for the nation to swing in the other direction for a while. We may be at the beginning of one of Schlesinger’s Liberal Eras.
    After saying all of that, my plan for this evening is to watch one of the other DVDs I have on hand from Netflix–Rock and Roll High School. I’m taking the evening off from politics.

  51. JimT

    Omg, did she really wink into the camera? If Joe Biden had done that he would have been laughed off the stage.
    At least I’m glad to hear the McCain campaign now wants full legal protection for gay couples. That was a refreshing change.

  52. Doug Ross

    According to the Palin’s 2007 tax returns that have just been released by the McCain campaign, the Palin’s made $166,080 last year. This puts their income in the top 4% for American families.
    It would have been higher, but Todd Palin has a couple side businesses (snow machine racing, fishing tours) that generate about $70K in revenue but little income (+16K for fishing, -10K for snow racing, so net $6K).
    They valued their home on the Business Use Of Home form at $357K while the median home sale price in Wasilla, AK was $217K.
    This is an excellent data point to see what her income looks like in four years if McCain wins.
    It doesn’t take long for these politicians who are “just like us” to become something else very quickly. It happened for the Clintons. It happened for Obama. It happens to all of them. Politics is a very lucrative occupation.

  53. Lee Muller

    The Palin’s don’t make as much money as a lot of couples where husband and wife both work, teaching at USC or assembling cars for GM.
    Incomes are high in Alaska because the cost of living is high, just like in Silicon Valley or New York City.
    Anyway, Doug, I am surprised that a free marketeer like yourself wouldn’t celebrate the Palins holding down 2 jobs and running a couple of businesses on the side.
    Compare that with Joe Biden, who has always held some sort of government job.
    Compare that to Barack Obama, who couldn’t make over $25,000 a year as a lawyer until he hooked up with Rezko. Obama hasn’t made $100,000 honest money in his entire life.

  54. penultimo mcfarland

    “This is an excellent data point to see what her income looks like in four years if McCain wins.
    “It doesn’t take long for these politicians who are “just like us” to become something else very quickly. It happened for the Clintons. It happened for Obama. It happens to all of them. Politics is a very lucrative occupation.”
    So Palin’s guilty until proven innocent, huh, Doug?
    And Norm, the United States ARE a nation. Hence the electoral college. Hence gay marriage in Massachusetts but not in S.C. Hence hospitality tax takes the place of a tax on groceries in Florida. Hence pumping your own gas is ILLEGAL in Oregon. Hence it’s illegal to import a whale into Arizona. Hence whenever two trains meet each other on parallel tracks in Kansas, both must stop and neither may proceed until the other has departed, at least according to Kansas law.
    Different strokes for different folks, Norm. Being one of the United States shouldn’t mean S.C. has to wear a United States uniform without having the underwear it finds most comfortable.

  55. Doug Ross

    All you gotta do is look at the facts. People love to give money to politicians. Perks, sweetheart deals, you name it. Why? You know why. Are you willing to make a bet that Sarah Palin’s income jumps above 1,000,000 within five years?
    Rudy Guiliani’s net worth has multiplied 20 fold or more since 9/11. Dick Cheney somehow has been able to multiply his net worth considerably by bouncing between the public and private sector.
    And Lee, please go back and read my post. Did I make any comment (positive or negative) that was not purely factual about their financial situation?
    It’s Sarah Palin who claims to be like Joe Sixpack, not me. The data proves that.
    If we had financial data on all the off-the-books benefits a sitting governor gets (like tax free per diems to live in her own house, transportation, free travel for her and her family, expenses paid for by her campaign funds, etc.), we’d see that the Palin’s are not facing the same struggles a typical middle class family faces. For her to claim she does is pure falsehood.
    I just want to see what the income looks like in four years. You know there will be a multi-million dollar book deal even if McCain loses, speaking engagements with fees in the six figure range, maybe even a TV talk show (her best vocation). I don’t begrudge her or her husband a dime they make outside of the influence of public office.

  56. Randy E

    An example of what Doug explains:
    AP Investigation: Palin got zoning aid, gifts
    Associated Press Writer
    WASILLA, Alaska (AP) — Though Sarah Palin depicts herself as a pit bull fighting good-old-boy politics, in her years as mayor she and her friends received special benefits more typical of small-town politics as usual, an Associated Press investigation shows.
    When Palin needed to sell her house during her last year as Wasilla mayor, she got the city to sign off on a special zoning exception – and did so without keeping a promise to remove a potential fire hazard.
    She gladly accepted gifts from merchants: A free “awesome facial” she raved about in a thank-you note to a spa. The “absolutely gorgeous flowers” she received from a welding supply store. Even fresh salmon to take home.
    She also stepped in to help friends or neighbors with City Hall dealings. She asked the City Council to add a friend to the list of speakers at a 2002 meeting – and then the friend got up and asked them to give his radio station advertising business.

  57. Randy E

    “innocent until proven guilty” – pm
    So in the upcoming weeks as McCain initiates his scorched earth strategy to attack Obama’s character you will condemn McCain unless he provides PROOF? I suspect such proof will be quite subjective.

  58. Lee Muller

    What character?
    Obama’s terrorist friends like Bill Ayers?
    Or communists like Mike Klonsky and Frank Marshall Davis?
    Real estate swindlers like Rezko, who funded 90% of his legal practice?
    Or securities swindlers like his pals at FNMA and FMAC, Lehman Bros and AIG?

  59. Lee Muller

    I don’t say your post about the Palin’s home and income is not true; it’s just not relevant to anything, except to the typical government worker or welfare sucker who believes Obama. You aren’t one of those.

  60. Lee Muller

    “The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. But she is a typical white person”
    by Barack Hussein Obama
    Granny’s not the racist in that family.

  61. Lee Muller

    McCain needs a backbone like Lee Atwater now, who would run truth ads showing:
    * Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Chris Dodd and other Democrats in hearings, claiming no problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
    * The kickback money donated to Obama by those who stole millions from the mortgage programs.
    * Cop killers like Bill Ayers and his wife, who managed Obama’s campaign
    * Michael Klonsky, another Weatherman and communist who ran Obama’s official web site, until he was exposed, and a new site replaced it.
    * The thousands of illegal campaign contributions from Muslims to Obama, now being investigated by the FEC.
    * Obama’s upbringing as a Muslim, and his love for Islam and his hatred of America, in his own words, from his books and speeches.


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