Now that Obama has won the election, we see a number of narratives emerging as to what it means in terms of race in America:
- Some folks are just stunned that a "black man" could get elected president. They had always hoped, but hadn’t dared to expect it, what with white people being so wicked and all, but all is right with the world. Our long national nightmare is over.
- Others are equally shocked and pleasantly surprised, but caution us not to think that we’ve put racism behind us, so don’t let your guard down, folks.
- Then there are those who say, Of course we elected a black man president; we could have done it sooner given such a well-qualified choice. No one should be a bit surprised, and this proves that racism is something we don’t have to wring our hands about any more, so can we talk about something else now?
- Finally, there’s me and a couple of other people who say, "What do you mean, ‘black man’?" This is a guy whose white American mother married a foreign student — someone who came to this country to avail himself of its great store of educational opportunity, NOT someone brought here from the OTHER side of the African continent as a slave. Yeah, he decided to self-identify as a black man, but does that make him one? So does this prove anything? Maybe it does since so many people, black and white, seem to have accepted his self-identification, and he was elected because of/in spite of that. But given his anomalous background (and since I share some points of commonality with him in terms of my own peripatetic childhood — things that make me think that just maybe there are things about him I understand that your average black or white voter does not — I feel some entitlement to speak on this point), does it REALLY mean what people say it means? This is a very, very talented young politician who, if anything, personally transcends race — so maybe THAT means something. But I don’t know.
Those are the strains I’ve identified so far. Y’all see any others?
Answer this Brad. If a person is half black and half white but does not look like he is mixed and endures racism, does he get to opt out by claiming “hey, I’m not a ‘black man'”?
That is ludicrous. Racism and the related negative effects are not the result of “self-identity.”
I thought it ironic that the blackest states by percentage wound up almost universally red, but that relationship has existed for the longest time, so I don’t know tat it surprised me.
The state-by-state results do imply, though, that white vote elected Obama.
Unfortunately, that really doesn’t anything about racism. That axe still cuts both ways.
We kept hearing that, “The Obama campaign is not about race”, but all we have heard is, “the first black president” or something racial, especially all day Nov 4 and 5th.
When are the race-obsessed white supporters of Obama going to take their minds off skin color and start looking at his socialist agenda?
Randy, it’s from his book. You should read it. Here’s a passage from my "Barack Like Me" column (which you should also read if you haven’t; this post won’t be intelligible without it), including a couple of quotes from the book:
You see, it was Obama who gave me the idea that he was deliberately choosing that identity. Where else would I have gotten it?
I don’t think he would disagree with my characterization. Nor would he necessarily disagree with your assertion that he had no choice in the matter. It was sort of a case of his thinking he had no alternative, but still he had to learn to "be black," as a deliberate process. It’s a major theme of the book, and the part that spoke to me the most loudly since he and I both lived in Hawaii (where race does not mean the same thing it meant on the mainland) at around the same ages.
Bottom line: I don’t think Obama would think what I said was "ludicrous." And I don’t know why you would say that. But then, you’ve been pretty dismissive of a lot of stuff I’ve said in recent months. Why the attitude? I’m not sure what started this.
I grow weary of hearing the whole “first African-American President” thing. Besides what Brad has mentioned, what viable candidate has the African-American community put up for the office? You’ve got Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, Carol Moseley Braun, and Alan Keyes (who is probably disowned by many African-Americans simply because he runs with the wrong party). Tell me which of those candidates really had a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming president? Then, all of a sudden, we have a nice looking, smooth talking candidate like Barack Obama enter the scene. I contend that an African-American could have been in the Oval Office long ago had someone from the minority stood up that wasn’t so easily laughed off the stage. It’s got nothing to do with overcoming some inherent racism in our society. It’s got everything to do with a viable candidate who happens to be half African (big difference from the African-American label, or maybe he is truly an African-American and those in our society who happen to be black and cling to some African heritage from hundreds of years ago are really just American) who can give a great speech (as long as it’s on a teleprompter) and ran a tremendous campaign.
Ultimately I say God bless Obama. Realistically we’re going to be just as divided as before (Can anyone really say with a straight face that a 53-46 split is some mandate on unity? In actuality it’s only slightly to the left of purely divisive), but I pray that he would have supernatural wisdom in governing our nation. I have my doubts, but I still pray that he does. If I can just have the faith of a mustard seed…
So I guess we can put you down as squarely in Category 3 there, Tim. As for what you say about what makes you "weary"…
I noted in my column a couple of weeks back that Obama and I both read The Autobiography of Malcolm X back when we were in high school in Hawaii — he at Punahou, me at Radford.
Have you read it? Do you remember the anecdote from the 1940s or so in which Malcolm says how tired he was of reading "first" stories in the press — "first negro" to do this or that or whatever? His point, I think, was that such things should not be news, they SHOULD have been so routine as not to be noticed. But every time I see a "first" story, I think about how Malcolm X was tired of reading stories like that 50 or 60 years ago.
Or am I misremembering that? Does anybody else remember that from the book? I don’t know what happened to my copy, and it’s been a LONG time…
One more thought — I know Carol Mosely-Braun had an extreme reputation and all. But when she came in for her endorsement interview in 2004, I found her quite charming…
I don’t think it’s fair, Tim, to put Jesse Jackson in the same category as Sharpton, Braun, and certainly Cynthia McKinney, or even going back further, Shirley Chisholm. My memory may betray me, but as I recall Jackson actually won some primaries, (whereas the others were all single-digit’ers) had reasonably strong showings in others, and was (for a while in the 1980s) a significant factor to be contended with as a party power broker, even if it was always pretty clear he would not attain the nomination. Obama is not president-elect today without the contributions of many who pushed the barriers back along the way, including Jesse. For me, his tears were the most evocative image of last evening.
You know what the election says about “race”? It says that we have made another giant step forward. My students today at RVHS were just delighted with the results.
The concept of “race” needs to be chucked. There is only one race–the human race, and it had its origins in the Great Rift Valley in Africa. We are all Africans by our common evolutionary ancestry. Light pigmentation in humans came long after the first humans stood erect and contemplated all they surveyed.
It’s time for us all to “love one another right now.” I am of the opinion that this life is all we have, so we might as well make the most of it and establish justice, tranquility, and harmony for the generations that will inevitably follow us.
Three cheers for our new President–Barack Hussein Obama!!!
As he hashed out his racial identity, he made a deliberate choice as described in his book written more than 13 years ago. In the interim, he has a new take, “people choose your race for you” as he explained during the campaign.
Had he “chosen” to be “white” as you suggest, how would any racism have been curtailed? If he had a white wife, would racism have been prevented (or would it antagonize racists)? Consider the ad attacking Harold Ford in which a white woman implores him to call her. This is an example of OTHERS making the identity of a candidate an issue.
It doesn’t have to be racism either. Obama certainly will be the most unusual looking POTUS and not because his mother is from Kansas. People are described by features that make them stand out. It is common for African-Americans to be identified by their race in the most innocuous situations, e.g. the tall black lady with glasses.
At the core of the issue is what does it actually mean to be black. I contend that it is simply SKIN COLOR. Obama’s skin color is such that in the US most would call him black, albeit light skinned. Are you going to argue that the sky is not blue as well?
>black lady with glasses
“This is a very, very talented young politician who, if anything, personally transcends race.”
This is the part you got right. Barack Obama is black, and he would still be black if he chose to “self identify” as purple. But he was elected because people perceive that black or white is not how he primarily defines himself (unlike other black leaders mentioned here) or how he primarily looks at the world. Because he personally transcends race, I think his presidency will help to reduce the “us and them” mentality that I see so often here in the rural Pee Dee and move us toward the day when race is truly incidental.
That’s why Obama’s race is important to the nation.
There are many black people who are qualified to be president (Colin Powell, Condi Rice) but few want to put themselves under such scrutiny. And if we are talking merely qualifications what made Ronald Reagan qualified? By those standards we could have President Denzel Washington or President Will Smith. Why does a black man have to have more qualifications than any president before him to be considered worthy? But I digress… my original point is would it take and attack from aliens for us to put race aside and realize that we are all in this together? We are one America, with one President.
By the way Tim, there are many black republicans who are loyal to the party and many white democrats so please don’t be so dismissive, it is unbecoming.
Excuse me, but…
… Barack Obama’s entire political career is about identifying himself with race.
His book is about his rejection of his being raised by middle class whites, and his identification with his communist father. His vocabulary is all about Afro-centrism, racial identity politics and reparations. His mediocre work history consists of nothing but political organizing with ACORN, the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, and other racist groups.
… what scrutiny did Obama get from the media?
They were too lazy or on his side to even read his books and report the commitment to socialist revolution found there.
All the investigations into the team of communist friends and advisors, the team of lobbyists and insiders, and his funding from Muslims, had to be done by individuals on the Internet and the foreign media. The British press was astounded that this fellow could be seriously considered a candidate, and at how the America press was covering for him.
I guess we can put Affirmative Action to bed now.
I don’t think it was a much about race as it was about competence. Mr. Obama’s skill and vision simply and easily transcended what the man looks like. As such, the American people responded admirably.
Had Mr. McCain been elected, it would have entrenched what up until two days ago, was a deeply cynical electorate, with a very corrosive effect on our long term prospects as a true democracy.
The colors have changed a little but the principles remain the same.
As for your supposition that you may understand him in way that your average black or white voter does not (your fourth point)
I noticed that still wasn’t persuasive enough for you to vote for him, like so many of the other average posters here (including myself).
I meant to say unlike so many of these other average posters here who DID vote for Obama.
Obama has never DONE anything of consequence in his 47 years.
Warmed over 1930s socialism, laced with racist economic reparations, as outlined in his books?
Lee, that’s President elect Obama. 😉
The election still has not been certified.
Obama still has not produced proof that he is a U.S. citizen, and he is not president until he does.
It’s time for Lee’s medication again.
It must be frustrating for you Obamanites to be so unable to discuss any of the agenda of your Worshipful Master.
That’s the thing — I felt like I DID understand Obama to a great extent, as I also understood McCain. And I agree with McCain about a great deal.
In fact, I think some of my own youthful attitude toward the issue of race (I thought it was over and done with, a thing we would not have to think about in the future — rather like our high school teacher above, only 40 years ago) arises to a great extent from the commonalities I had with McCain. While I’m able to speak of how different race was in Hawaii — and note that Obama had to move to Chicago to complete the process of “learning to be black;” he could not have done it had he stayed home — and Obama and I have that in common, there is a particular kind of unconsciousness about race that one gains from growing up in the military.
I was born six years after the armed services were integrated, and as I grew up, I was aware of my environment as a meritocracy without knowing the word. One’s rank had to do with one’s accomplishments, not one’s background (beyond the fact that officers tended to be more middle class, but I was in high school before I was mindful of that — and it was sergeants’ kids who had to point out that I was different because I was an “officer’s kid;” I’d never have realized it myself).
I had to spend time in the civilian world as an adult to realize how sheltered from considerations of race my youth had been.
Anyway, back to identifying with Obama and/or McCain, and what that means in terms of how I voted. As I mentioned, I agreed with McCain about more issues — and most of those issues had little to do with our backgrounds, although some did (those bearing on war and peace). But here’s the thing — it’s sort of like the thing about which candidate you’d like to have a beer with, or which candidate seems more like you, and whether you’d vote for THAT person, or someone on another plane.
You have to realize that McCain is someone I look UP to, and have for a long time. Whereas Obama is much YOUNGER than I am — and don’t underestimate that as a factor. McCain’s seniority, his accomplishments, and yes, his heroism, put him in a different category altogether. I could be deeply impressed by Obama, but still see him as that impressive young man, and see McCain as far better prepared for the job.
The only issue with McCain — and a lot of you brought this up, and some of you used it as a reason not to vote for him — was whether he was TOO senior, whether his time was past. I find myself wondering whether that’s true, and whether that’s why he did such a dismal job in the campaign. But I can remember that he never was the campaigner Obama is — for instance, I remember his dismal performance in his endorsement interview in 2000, which added to the factors that caused me to lose the endorsement debate that time. AT his best, McCain had good days and bad days as a campaigner. As we’ve noted, Obama doesn’t have bad days.
But I ramble. Did I answer your question at all?
But I looked at Obama as being impressive and the team with which he surrounds himself as being equally impressive. No one man runs a government. It is simply impossible.
McCains team was nowhere nearly as well equipped to run this country as is Obama’s.
And therein lies the difference.
One’s ability to campaign reflects one’s ability to govern. Obama’s team was vastly superior to McCains. It’s often said that ideologues make poor administrators; one can only look to the last Republican congress to see that.
Similarly, the maverick, no matter how mavericky he may be, isn’t up to the adminstrative rigorous of running the US government. When he tried to be bold, he came off as erratic; when he tried to be a fighter, he came off as angry and annoyed.
Unlike Bill Clinton, who dithered about for weeks to pick a Chief of Staff, Mr. Obama looks to have one in place by the end of the week; his staff is already moving into a building provided by the GSA; parachute teams are already at various government agencies figuring out what to focus on because there is simply no time to waste.
I don’t think Mr. McCain would have acted nearly that fast.
Age was an important factor in this election in that McCain will only get older and become less sharpt. Experience will matter little in the Obama presidency. With Joe Biden on board Obama can count on his council until he masters the art of foreign policy. I doubt this will take long.
As a military brat, how do you rationalize away Obama’s socialist resume, and his writings and statements of his desire to ignore the Constitution and gut our military?
He has had at least six radical communists on his campaign staff, two of them confessed murderers.
Ouch, this post string hurts my soul…
Lee – the lady with the little paper cup will be around shortly.
Gene – a Psalm I looked up and wanted to send over to Warren after reading his column today, thinking of the tears shed so unashamedly by so many over the past couple of days:
[This Psalm was the inspiration for the familiar hymn “Bringing in the Sheaves,” written in 1874 by Knowles Shaw.]
Psalm 126 – A Pilgrim Song
…It was like a dream…
Restore our fortunes, Lord,
as streams renew the desert.
Those who plant in tears
will harvest with shouts of joy.
They weep as they go to plant their seed,
but they sing as they return with the harvest.
In response to a serious question to someone else, you post a snotty personal insult, then quote Psalm 126.
We’re all a work-in-progress, Lee. Even you!
FEC Audit of Obama Campaign
October 05, 2008 4:59 PM
The Republican National Committee announced today that on Monday it will file a fundraising complaint with the Federal Election Commission against the presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., charging the Democrat has accepted illegal donations from foreigners as well as contributions that exceed the $2,300-per-person federal limits from American citizens.
Obama’s campaign has raised almost $460 million so far, and almost half that has been raised by small donors contributing less than $200. RNC chief counsel Sean Cairncross today noted in a conference call that questions have arisen about those smaller donations, which by law the campaign is not required to disclose.
Newsweek reported over the weekend that FEC auditors have asked the Obama campaign about a number of contributors whose contributions seem to violate campaign laws, such as “Good Will” of Austin, Texas, who listed his occupation as “You” and his employer as “Loving” and gave more than $11,000 total in $10 and $25 increments. Another questionable donor, “Doodad Pro” of Nunda, N.Y., gave $17,130 in similarly small increments.
“The Obama campaign has a track record of accepting these,” Cairncross said.
He also said that “the Obama campaign has accepted contributions from foreign nationals and has knowingly done so through at least its failure to reasonably investigate where all this money is coming from.” The RNC will ask the FEC to audit these smaller donations.
Earlier this year the Obama campaign returned more than $30,000 from Monir and Hosam Edwan, two Palestinian brothers in the Gaza Strip who said that they’d purchased Obama 2008 T-shirts in bulk from the Obama campaign Web site.
The FEC had asked for the redesignation or refund of 53,828 foreign donations, totaling just under $30 million.
But none involves the donors who never appear in the Obama campaign reports, which the [Center for Responsive Politics] estimates at nearly half the $426.8 million the Obama campaign has raised to date.
Lee M, you amaze me? I think you believe if you say it out loud (or in this case write it) that make is true. It seems like everything you write is an outright lie, but that is neither here nor there you are entitled to your OPONION. Is the only reason you are questioning the fact that Obama is an American is because he is Black. My son’s middle name is Jamaal, it means king in Muslim, I liked the name Adam Jamaal sounded nice to me. Does that make me a Muslim? A radical? Un-American? Would it surprise you to know that I am more conservative than liberal; I am also the daughter of a Southern Baptist Minister a white man that feel in love with a black woman and had to move to the north to find peace? Who was married for 53 years until he succumbed to cancer. I am also the wife of an Air Force Sergeant whose name is the same as my son’s middle name. Does that make him less of an American? Do you not want him to defend YOUR freedom and YOUR right to spew hate and ignorance because he has a Muslim name? You insult my and intelligence with all the crap you write and worse than that you minimize your own. A closed mind is the scariest thing on the planet.
Brad et al
Race is an issue because it is!!! When someone is black that is one of the first (if not the first thing) you notice about us. Then there is the immediate calculation in minds to size us up and put us in a box. Are they just like rappers I see on TV? Are they more like the Cosby show? Can they form a sentence? Don’t respond out loud because I really don’t want to know just think about it.
I wish race wasn’t an issue but it is and it will continue to be until we can admit that we all have pre-conceived notions about people confront them and work on them as a united America.
It may surprise you to know black people have pre-conceived notions about white people too, for example I am wondering if my car broke down in front of Lee M’s house would you shoot me for being in the neighborhood once you see the color of my skin or the Obama/Biden decal on my foreign car?
I think it was Kenneth Johnson that said something like Education is Man’s going forward from cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty.
“Don’t respond out loud because I really don’t want to know just think about it.”
EXCELLENT advice, Alicia!
Have a great American day everybody!!!
for example I am wondering if my car broke down in front of Lee M’s house would you shoot me for being in the neighborhood once you see the color of my skin or the Obama/Biden decal on my foreign car?
Posted by: Alicia | Nov 6, 2008 12:39:19 PM
Alicia, it really depends on if you were driving a rice burner or not. If there’s one thing this blog has taught me, he has no love for that particular commodity.
Thank you, thank you, thank you Alicia.
“There are many black people who are qualified to be president (Colin Powell, Condi Rice) but few want to put themselves under such scrutiny. And if we are talking merely qualifications what made Ronald Reagan qualified? By those standards we could have President Denzel Washington or President Will Smith. Why does a black man have to have more qualifications than any president before him to be considered worthy?”
Are you serious, Alicia? Please, tell me you’re joking. Ronald Regan wasn’t qualified? I guess being governor of one of the largest economies in the world doesn’t qualify you to be president. I also guess the following list wasn’t qualified to be president either:
Thomas Jefferson, Governor of Virginia, 1779-81
James Monroe, Governor of Virginia, 1799-1802
Andrew Jackson, Governor of the Florida Territory, 1821
Martin Van Buren, Governor of New York, 1829
William Henry Harrison, Territorial Governor of Indiana, 1801-13
John Tyler, Governor of Virginia, 1825-26
James Knox Polk, Governor of Tennessee, 1839-41
Andrew Johnson, Governor of Tennessee, 1853-57, Military Governor of Tennessee, 1862-65
Rutherford Birchard Hayes, Governor of Ohio, 1868-72, Governor of Ohio, 1876-77
Grover Cleveland, Governor of New York, 1883-85
William McKinley, Governor of Ohio, 1892-96
Theodore Roosevelt, Governor of New York, 1898-1900
William Howard Taft, Governor of the Philippines, 1901-04
Woodrow Wilson, Governor of New Jersey, 1911-13
Calvin Coolidge, Governor of Massachusetts, 1919-20
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Governor of New York, 1929-33
James Earl Carter, Jr., Governor of Georgia, 1971-75
William Jefferson Clinton, Governor of Arkansas, 1978-80, 1982-92
George Walker Bush, Governor of Texas, 1995-2000
By that measure, Sarah Palin had more qualifications to be POTUS than Obama did. But I’m not going to fight that particular argument because Obama won fair and square and it would be a pointless conversation at this point. Plus I have a feeling it probably falls on deaf ears.
And to say that Barack has more qualifications than any POTUS before him is just laughable. So you’re saying that Barack is more qualified to lead the country than Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc.? Seriously, Alicia, are you sure that you don’t want to take that statement back? I’d go out on a limb and say that there aren’t even many Obama supporters who’ll agree with you on that point. I personally only have to look back 8 years to find a candidate that had more qualifications (because being qualified and actually performing your duties well are two different things), but for the sake of someone we can probably all agree on, we only have to look back as recently as 16 years to find a more qualified candidate than Barack Obama. By your argument, Farmer Joe (please excuse the recently overused generic name) would be just as, if not more than, qualified than Thomas Jefferson. The fact is, while Obama is a smart man, he is one of the most, if not THE most unqualified candidate in recent history. Maybe four or eight years from now he would be qualified, be he is certainly not qualified now. If you want to go down the qualification road, McCain and Biden were by far the most qualified to be POTUS in this election. However, I reiterate, I will pray for Obama to have wisdom. He is my president and I will respect him as such even though it’s a pretty safe bet that I won’t agree with many of his policies. It would be wonderful if he proves me wrong over the next four years. I’m not holding my breath, though.
As far as not wanting to run because of the enhanced scrutiny, that goes for any person running, whether they’re black, white, green, or purple. Even conceding Phillip’s point about Jesse Jackson being a viable player back in the 1980’s (because I’m not interested enough to investigate or argue the point), Obama STILL is the first candidate with an African background who has had a real shot at the White House. Why? I’ve got to believe that there are plenty of others in that segment of society that are plenty qualified to be POTUS. To be sure, it is nice to have someone with an African heritage finally hold the office if just to stop the moaning about it, but the point is that the African-American minority has not put up a viable candidate who had a decent shot of actually winning until Barack came along. So I get tired of hearing about people never believing this day would happen because of racism. To be sure, racism exists, but the proper observation is that African-Americans couldn’t believe this day would happen because they never believed that the African-American community would get behind a candidate who actually was normal enough to be elected.
“By the way Tim, there are many black republicans who are loyal to the party and many white democrats so please don’t be so dismissive, it is unbecoming.”
I don’t even know what this statement is supposed to mean, but many black Republicans? I can’t find specific numbers right now, but I’d almost be willing to bet (and I’m not a betting man) that well north of 90% of African-Americans voted for Barack and probably similar numbers identify themselves as Democrats (even though there is a large segment of African-Americans that are more in line with conservative beliefs, many that I personally know). I’m not quite sure how you define “many,” but I don’t find that “many” is less than 10 percent of a particular voting block.
Alicia, what’s unbecoming is your silly logic in this post. Please, try again.
Isn’t it interesting that the State, which could not in the end endorse Barack Obama for President, partly because it might lose subscriptions among its strong Lexington County base, is not ashamed to republish its morning-after special section, so that fans in Richland County will buy the paper. I doubt this section had many buyers in Lexington. A little too late for Richland readers who cannot remember a Democratic endorsement from the State for president. Carter 32 years ago? I just don’t remember.
The Lexington coven of the KKK needs to hijack another news outlet. And secede from this country.
The KKK has no power here and even if they were present, their terrible words should be plain and spoken for all to hear. Silencing hate does not make it scuttle off in no harm to the rest of us. In actuality, the resentment of being silenced emboldens hate until it can hide its ugliness no longer, only to spring forth with often tragic consequences.
Lee Ulmler has a right to spew every ridiculous, racist, inane and silly comment that appears here. You don’t have to agree with it; you just have to urge the same tolerance for his/her thoughts as you would expect for your views, as moderate in comparison as they may be.
Our Founders understood this; we should follow their examples as set forth in the Constitution.
Besides, if his/her small mindedness gets to you, join me in publicly mocking his “contributions.” He/she loves it.
Isn’t that rice, Lee?
The Lexington *BROTHERHOOD* of the KKK needs to hijack another news outlet. And secede from this country.
Maybe if I say it enough times, the finance wing will hear it……..
Against the advice of ‘wiser than I’ psychiatrists and such to not engage in banter with sociopaths, which appear to have a stronghold on Brad…
I “join [you] in publicly mocking his ‘contributions.'”
I hate everything you contribute, Brad.
One thing’s for sure. No one could have figured out how to win an election graciously by reading this blog over the last couple of days.
Whatever you give out will come back at you, guys.
Please try to act like you’ve been there, even if you never dreamed getting there was possible.
I would be sobered by that promise, p.m. — what goes around comes around. Brad’s had it coming for approx. 14 years as I see it. And if it intensifies with time, he is effed.
Correction: You are doubly effed, Brad. Heavenly effed. Effed to the highest effing.
Answer one question. If Obama were white, would he have gotten elected?
Are you asking Brad, Bill C.?
Speak to your audience. Writing, Rule One.
Just about my entire family is republican including my sister, God Bless her who voted for Bush both times. I also know of several Black people who voted for McCain. I am guessing that you don’t know a wide range of African Americans to actually know who is Republican or not. And I never thought McCain was not qualified, I respect the man and think he would have done a decent job if elected, but I do not think he would have brought change and say what you will; I still don’t believe Pailn qualified and the only reason McCain chose her was to try and get the disenfranchised Hillary vote. But please hold on to the belief that someone who thinks they can see Russia from their house can be president. My niece believe you can did a hole to China from the back yard, may she can run for VP, oh but wait she is only 4 by time she is 44 I am sure she will know better.
By the way Lincoln, who freed the slaves, was a Republic which is why there is a Black Republic community even if it un-popular.
Trust me when I tell you that Black people alone did not elect Obama, but I am sure you are in denial about that too.
And for the record, I voted for Rudy Giuliani a republican and Governor Mark Sanford also a republican because I vote on issues not blindly on party lines or race.
And Tim I am guessing all logic is silly to you if it is not in line with your beliefs.
Just about my entire family is republican including my sister, God Bless her who voted for Bush both times. I also know of several Black people who voted for McCain. I am guessing that you don’t know a wide range of African Americans to actually know who is Republican or not. I never thought McCain was not qualified, I respect the man and think he would have done a decent job if elected, but I do not think he would have brought change.
Say what you will; I still don’t believe Pailn was qualified and the only reason McCain chose her was to try and get the disenfranchised Hillary vote. But please hold on to the belief that someone who thinks they can see Russia from their house can be vice president. My niece believes you can dig a hole to China from the back yard, maybe she can run for VP, oh but wait she is only 4 by time she is 44 I am sure she will know better.
By the way Lincoln, who freed the slaves, was a Republican which is why there is a Black Republican community even if it un-popular.
Trust me when I tell you that Black people alone did not elect Obama, but I am sure you are in denial about that too.
And for the record, I voted for Mayor Rudy Giuliani a republican and Governor Mark Sanford also a republican because I vote on issues not blindly on party lines or race.
And Tim I am guessing all logic is silly to you if it is not in line with your beliefs.
By the way Tim, California is a state not an economy and if the ONLY qualification you need to be president is to be a governor then McCain was not qualified either. I, silly me thought it took more.
Oh but here I go again with silly logic.
To be sure, racism exists, but the proper observation is that African-Americans couldn’t believe this day would happen because they never believed that the African-American community would get behind a candidate who actually was normal enough to be elected.
If you don’t think racism exist then you have not been reading this blog and quite honestly I would venture to say that you haven’t looked in a mirror lately. And what do you mean NORMAL. I would say how dare you, but I think that maybe you are not NORMAL and it will be pointless.
Obama’s entire campaign was racist, so of course it still exists. All we still hear is, “the first black president…yadda, yadda”.
A lot of the rest of us got beyond that before we left high school.
Sooner or later, you have to look beyond Obama being biracial, and deal with his ideology, which is Marxist.
Reader, I didn’t think it was that difficult to figure out, I was asking anyone who wishes to answer.
“Just about my entire family is republican including my sister, God Bless her who voted for Bush both times. I also know of several Black people who voted for McCain. I am guessing that you don’t know a wide range of African Americans to actually know who is Republican or not.”
Alicia, I could really care less who in your family is Republican. I myself am not Republican as the party as a whole has abandoned my beliefs as a conservative. I don’t think it really matters to the conversation or points at hand who is and isn’t Republican. But it’s quite a jump for you to say that I don’t know a wide range of black people. You really don’t know who I know and don’t know. What I do know is that the African American segment consistently votes Democratic every single election. I believe the number was upwards of 90% for Al Gore and 88% voted for John Kerry. And yet you still contend that there are “many” black Republicans? Again, I don’t know what your definition of “many” is, but my definition consists of more than 10-12% of that particular voting block.
“Say what you will; I still don’t believe Pailn was qualified and the only reason McCain chose her was to try and get the disenfranchised Hillary vote. But please hold on to the belief that someone who thinks they can see Russia from their house can be vice president. My niece believes you can dig a hole to China from the back yard, maybe she can run for VP, oh but wait she is only 4 by time she is 44 I am sure she will know better.”
And if you’d read what I’d written you would have understood that I don’t care to fight an argument about Palin. It’s moot. There’s no point to even go there. You don’t have to bring up the Russia thing because it has no bearing on the conversation. Besides, I never said either way if I thought Palin was ready to be VP or not. I only countered your silly argument that Denzel Washington and Will Smith were qualified to be President because Reagan had been an actor too. The fact is, and is apparently lost on you until this point, that Reagan was the governor of perhaps the largest state in the US at that time, yet you still say he was unqualified. Even those who didn’t like Reagan could easily admit that he was qualified even though they may not have agreed with his leadership. The fact that you followed this line on Palin proves that you didn’t actually read my post before you wrote a response.
“By the way Lincoln, who freed the slaves, was a Republican which is why there is a Black Republican community even if it un-popular.”
And what the heck is this statement supposed to mean? This has NOTHING to do with what I wrote. YOU said that Obama was more qualified than any past POTUS. That means you believe that he’s more qualified than Lincoln et al. If you want to believe that then fine, but that puts you in such an extreme segment of the population that you should probably pal around with either Bud or Lee (take your pick, but based on your fawning over Obama I’d encourage you to seek out Bud).
“Trust me when I tell you that Black people alone did not elect Obama, but I am sure you are in denial about that too.”
Did I ever say that black people alone elected Obama? The fact that African-Americans make up only 13.4% of the population obviously means that many more than just African-Americans voted for Obama. I don’t know where you get off saying that I’m in denial about anything since this didn’t even come up before.
“And Tim I am guessing all logic is silly to you if it is not in line with your beliefs.”
And not all logic is silly, just the logic of someone who either doesn’t read or take the time to understand before they jump out and start writing. I’m sure you’re smarter than this response. I implore you, please reread my post and make a sensible response.
“By the way Tim, California is a state not an economy and if the ONLY qualification you need to be president is to be a governor then McCain was not qualified either. I, silly me thought it took more.
Oh but here I go again with silly logic.”
Are you serious? Apparently you’ve never come across figures on how big California’s economy actually is. As of 2006 California was the 9th largest economy in the world with a GDP of $1.812 trillion. In 1975, the last year of Regan’s tenure as governor, the California economy was the 7th largest in the world at $1.78 trillion. So yes, I do believe that being the governor of one of the world’s largest ECONOMIES is just a bit more qualification than Obama’s few years as a state and US senator.
Plus, I never said that the ONLY qualification for POTUS was being a governor, but you didn’t even acknowledge Reagan’s experience in the executive branch, only his career as an actor. However, history shows that the best experience one can get in order to be POTUS is being a governor. So yes, there you do go again with your silly logic…
“If you don’t think racism exist then you have not been reading this blog and quite honestly I would venture to say that you haven’t looked in a mirror lately. And what do you mean NORMAL. I would say how dare you, but I think that maybe you are not NORMAL and it will be pointless.”
My gosh, is it a full moon or something? Where are all these people coming from? Again, if you would actually READ what I wrote (Is this you, Alicia, writing under a different pseudonym?) you would see that I acknowledged that racism exists. What takes the cake is that you even copied my statement where I said, “To be sure, racism exists…” yet you go on to accuse me of saying that it doesn’t exist. And I find it quite disingenuous that you tacitly call me a racist. Seriously, if you’re going to call me a racist, please have the courage to just come out and say it. It actually is one of the funniest things I’ve heard in a while. Here, I’ll even help you out. I’m a cracker, honkie, bigot, homophobe, trailer-trash too. There, now isn’t that much better? To be honest, if you really think I’m a racist then I wear the title as a badge of honor. I think the charge probably says more about you than anything about me.
And as far as the normal comment; again, you apparently didn’t actually read anything I wrote. That is, of course, unless you want to classify Al Sharpton, Carol Moseley Braun, Cynthia McKinney, Alan Keyes, or (thanks to Phillip’s contribution) Shirley Chisholm (in deference to Phillip I leave Jesse Jackson out of this list) as a NORMAL candidate for POTUS. Again, if you want to classify any of these as normal enough to get elected to POTUS than it really says more about where you are than anything about me.
“The KKK has no power here and even if they were present, their terrible words should be plain and spoken for all to hear. Silencing hate does not make it scuttle off in no harm to the rest of us. In actuality, the resentment of being silenced emboldens hate until it can hide its ugliness no longer, only to spring forth with often tragic consequences.”
Capital A, I rarely if ever agree with you, but I wholeheartedly second your comment here. Whether it is dissent regarding the battle in Iraq, an insensitive off-the-cuff comment by Don Imus, or even your run-of-the-mill skinhead; it is important to allow everyone to speak. I’d much rather have someone speak up and know exactly where they stand than have them suppress their speech because it’s not “politically correct.” You’re exactly right, when we supress speech it usually goes underground only to fester and explode violently.
Tim Tim Tim, I don’t do pseudonyms I have not problem speaking my mind.
Tim… if Barak had not been black, and with his lack of experience he would have been eaten alive by Hillary Clinton in the primary. Race definitely played a big role in this election, whether you want to believe it or not. Just as much sex played in the selection of Sarah Palin as McCain’s running mate.
Tim since you seem to think govener is what qualifies you Lawrence Douglas Wilder, Deval Patrick and recently David Paterson. You seem to insist that NO black person is qualified to do the job and I seem to insist they are. I also stand by Dr. Condoleezza Rice as being qualified and in case you haven’t notices she is also black. Just because they don’t want to doesn’t mean they are not qualified. And you are the one who has a problem with Democrats I personally think balance is what we need and have no problem with Rebublicans heck Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican.
I read everything you wrote and maybe through all of the contempt your message was lost. But you do come off as snide, angry, and a bit racist.
Bill, I never said that race didn’t play a role in this election. Unfortunately it did, and I believe it played an equal or greater role from the left than it did from the right. I heard way more about race from the Obama camp than I ever did from McCain and his minions.
“Tim since you seem to think govener is what qualifies you Lawrence Douglas Wilder, Deval Patrick and recently David Paterson.”
I gave you a list of 20 governors who became president. I also said, “I never said that the ONLY qualification for POTUS was being a governor…” If you DON’T think that being governor qualifies you for president then you’re in the minority. YOU said, “And if we are talking merely qualifications what made Ronald Reagan qualified?” and went on to equate Denzel Washington and Will Smith with Reagan. How else is that statement to be interpreted other than you believe that the only qualifications Reagan had was being an actor? I challenge you to find any better qualifications than heading a state that consistently is in the top 10 economies in the world. And I reiterate AGAIN that being qualified does not mean that you’ll actually be successful. Here’s a real-world example for you (since you seem to think I’m so closed-minded), Ruth Bader-Ginsburg is imminently qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice. I probably disagree with almost every judicial decision she’s made, but she still remains imminently qualified. If I’d been in the Senate at the time of her nomination I would have had no choice but to vote for her.
“You seem to insist that NO black person is qualified to do the job and I seem to insist they are.”
I guess I insisted that no black person is qualified to do the job when I said, “I contend that an African-American could have been in the Oval Office long ago had someone from the minority stood up that wasn’t so easily laughed off the stage (in reference to the list that I’ve already written multiple times on this blog if you’d care to read who I refer to).” And also when I said, “I’ve got to believe that there are plenty of others in that segment (African-Americans) of society that are plenty qualified to be POTUS.” And then again when I said, “To be sure, it is nice to have someone with an African heritage finally hold the office…”
So yeah, I NEVER said that a black person could be qualified to be president (insert sarcasm here). The only thing you can accuse me of is my contention that Obama is perhaps the least qualified of any presidential candidate in modern history. That has nothing to do with race and everything to do with his career thus far. HOWEVER, be that as it may, the electorate decided to ignore his inexperience and elect him anyways.
“And you are the one who has a problem with Democrats I personally think balance is what we need and have no problem with Republicans.”
Again, you bring up something from left field that has no basis in anything I’ve said until now. I don’t have a problem with Democrats. I have a problem with unbridled liberalism. If I had a problem with Democrats then I probably wouldn’t have voted for Joe Lieberman back in the 2004 Democratic primaries.
“I read everything you wrote and maybe through all of the contempt your message was lost. But you do come off as snide, angry, and a bit racist.”
What I get angry about is someone who makes a comment that Denzel Washington and Will Smith were just as qualified to be POTUS as Reagan, denying the fact that Reagan lead the 7th largest world economy when he was governor. What I get angry about are comments from left field that attempt to put words in my mouth that have no basis in what the conversation is actually about. What I get angry about is when someone responds with so many assumptions because they must have sped read through whatever I wrote without taking the time to digest it.
And as far as contempt and snide remarks, I guess you’re exempt when you say, “…so please don’t be so dismissive, it is unbecoming.”
And finally, I wear the racist badge with honor when it comes after yours and Michelle’s comments. As I told her, the charge really says more about you than it does me. I’ll be glad to help you out by volunteering that I’m a cracker, honkie, bigot, homophobe, trailer-trash too (although I don’t live in a trailer, I just like the label for the current conversation since we’re throwing names around). It honestly makes my day to wear the label.
One last note, Alicia, since you want to keep bringing up Condi Rice. I 100% agree with you that she is qualified to be president (although I don’t know enough about her personal politics in order to give her my vote yet). However, do you really think that she would get the support of the African-American community as a Republican? She may be blessed to get the 4% of African-Americans that voted for McCain on Tuesday to vote for her as well. She may even get lucky enough to get the 12% of African-Americans who didn’t vote for Kerry. But I’d be willing to bet that she would get nothing near a plurality of the African-American vote. She’s already been vilified for years from African-American leadership of being a traitor.
Lawrence Douglas Wilder, Deval Patrick and recently David Paterson, were miserable FAILURES, and were tossed out by the voters (Patterson is has currenty failing).
They might get elected to office based on race, but when they fail as governor or mayor, they obviously were not qualified to be governor or mayor.
More of Lee’s “facts”: When Wilder was governor of VA, governors were limited to one term; Patrick is still governor of MA; and since Paterson took office in the midst of the worst year for Wall Street in decades, and has been in the governor’s chair all of 7.5 months, it’s too early to consider him a failure.
If McCain picked Condi for VP he would have had my vote, personally I think she is brilliant as does every African American I know, although I can’t speak for the world. Aside from her association with the current President (who I do have issues with) her politics run lock step and barrel with most of the people I know who are also conservative. As for Al Sharpton, whom I’ve met, is a smart man and a community activist but he couldn’t by my vote for president because I don’t think he is qualified and I do think he would be divisive. So why do you stereotype and entire group of people, oh black people must be democrat and they must vote for other black people. I also believe that if Obama were white none of these conversations would be happening he would be the President Elect, period. Some would be happy, others would not but all the contempt would be a non-issue. Barack Obama won because of his message of change, the fact that many people are feed up with the Bush Administration and Senator McCain could not distance him self from the Bush connection. Whether President Obama can make change or not remains to be seen he has not taken office yet, but I have home and I am proud.
Lee, people do not get elected based on their race, they get elected based on their platforms, they get re-elected based on if they can and do keep their campaign promises. Governor Deval Patrick is doing just fine, and David Paterson came to be governor after a scandal and has been there less than a year, but as Lieutenant Governor he was well like and well supported. But I don’t know why I bother you and I will never agree.
“So why do you stereotype and entire group of people, oh black people must be democrat and they must vote for other black people.”
I don’t know that stereotype is necessarily the correct word when there is ample historical evidence that the African-American community supports Democratic candidates in overwhelming numbers. Take these numbers of African American support as an example:
2008 – Barack Obama – 95%, John McCain – 4%
2004 – John Kerry – 88%, George Bush – 11%
2000 – Al Gore – 90%, George Bush – 9%
1996 – Bill Clinton – 84%, Bob Dole – 12%
1992 – Bill Clinton – 83%, George Bush – 10%
1988 – Michael Dukakis – 89%, George Bush – 11%
1984 – Walter Mondale – 91%, Ronald Reagan – 9%
1980 – Jimmy Carter – 83%, Ronald Reagan – 14%
1976 – Jimmy Carter – 83%, Gerald Ford – 17%
So I’m not stereotyping a group of people, I’m just stating the fact of how the demographic as a whole has voted historically. You may not vote that way, but the facts are that the overwhelming majority of the African-American electorate does. Stereotyping would imply that I’m making an incorrect assumption. Based on history, I’m correct. What amazes me, though, is that you claim to be conservative and have voted for Sanford and Giuliani, yet you apparently voted for Obama too. There’s absolutely nothing conservative about Obama’s platform. True, he says he’ll govern from the middle, and we all hope he does, but I find it hard to believe that a true conservative would vote for a man who’s ranked as the most liberal senator and whose VP nominee is ranked the third most liberal senator. It’s saying something when the Senate’s only self-avowed socialist (Bernie Sanders) is to the right of our new president and vice president.
I voted for Obama because I voted for change. I couldn’t find one good reason to vote for McCain since he was in line with Bush’s policies and I do have a problem with Bush. I hope President Elect Obama will govern to the middle as he says he will and bring the change he said he will bring. It actually was a well thought out vote after McCain chose Pailn (a 44 year old woman who thinks she can see Alaska from her home) and after he (I am sure after some really bad advice that he needed to be tougher) made maverick seem like cranky, erratic and out of touch. The longer the election went on the easier my choice became for me.
I vote for what I believe in not for one party or the other the whole party thing is discordant. That is why I am a registered independent. For the record I did not vote for Kerry for the mere fact that I figured Bush took the nation to hell he, at the very least needed, to be the one to bring us out, boy was I wrong. I think it is time for a change and that is what Obama was promising, and I believe him -me and 65,285,165 other Americans.
I’ll be you can’t even name 10 major things Obama has promised or threatened to do as part of his platform, or how he has voted on them:
Here, let’s test you:
* income tax rates
* capital gains tax
* definition of “rich”
* laws against gun ownership
* stimulus check handouts
* prosecution of mortgage loan bankers
* union elections
* 401-k, SEP, and IRA plans
* private health insurance choices
* consumer freedom to choose automobiles
* federal tax on homes
* tax on second home
Change? The thing about change, Alicia, is that it goes both ways. You can change for the better and you can change for the worse. In addition, your comment about voting with 65+ million others rings hollow. Your decision is supposed to be justified because you went along with a slight majority of the American electorate? Being in the majority doesn’t mean that the BEST decision was made, just that a majority agreed on a decision. And I don’t even think McCain was necessarily the best decision (If that’s the best that Republicans can offer than we’re screwed. He’s Obama Light, taking us down the same socialist path, just in a Model T as compared to Obama’s Porsche).
And you voted FOR Bush in 2004 because you didn’t agree and didn’t like how he was leading? I’m sorry, I just can’t fathom the thought processes you took to get there. I’m no philosopher, but you seem to have a plethora of faulty logic. Using your logic I would think you would have voted for McCain since he was Bush Jr. (which was one of the most inane things to come out of the Obama campaign) and Bush was the one who messed things up. Just curious, have you ever taken a course on critical thinking? And that’s not to insult you or say that I expect you to agree with me. Heck, Pillip and I never agree, but he has very well developed critical thinking skills as proven by his well thought out and logical posts.
You really proved my point, though. You say you vote for what you believe in (“Would it surprise you to know that I am more conservative than liberal…”). If that’s the case, then how do you reconcile a vote for Sanford, Giuliani, and Obama? You’ve just about covered everything from Libertarian to Socialist in that list. How in the heck am I supposed to figure out what you believe in with those votes? With Sanford and Obama you’re voting for polar opposites of the political spectrum (with both social and fiscal policies).
By the way, Sarah Palin can see Alaska from her home (I know, I know, you meant Russia, but I did think it was a funny slip). Plus, I don’t know where you vote, but here in South Carolina we don’t register as Democrats, Republicans, or Independents (and I hope we don’t start).
I get tired of hearing blanket accusations against Republicans for ‘race-baiting attacks’ which never name these supposed episodes.
When they do, it usually has nothing to do with race. The Obama campaign tried to spin every criticism of Obama’s platform and beliefs into a “racial smear”, even the Bill Ayers scandal.
I see far more racist tactics coming out of the Democratic Party.