I love this resolution submitted by Harry Mortenson (D-Las Vegas) of the Nevada legislature:
Whereas there are two common pronunciations of the name of our great state:
(1) the provincial pronunciation utilized by approximately two-million Nevadans, using a flat A-sound — a sound not unlike the bleating of a sheep, and;
(2) the cosmopolitan or Spanish pronunciation used by the other seven-billion inhabitants of our planet, using a soft “A” intonation—not unlike a sigh of contentment, and . . .
Whereas it is becoming a continuous, prodigious, and daunting task for the two million colloquial-speaking inhabitants to interrupt and correct the other seven-billion inhabitants of the Planet who utilize the Spanish/cosmopolitan pronunciation . . .
Therefore; be it resolved, that henceforth, there will be two acceptable pronunciations for the name of our great state:
(1) the preferred pronunciation will be the colloquial pronunciation, and;
(2) the less-preferred pronunciation will be the charitably-tolerated Spanish/cosmopolitan pronunciation.
I regret that he came down on the wrong side of the issue by choosing the wrong pronunciation as the preferred one, but I like that he had a strong sense of irony about it. He realizes that the way Nevadans pronounce it sounds to a literate ear like Anthony Hopkins seeming to make fun of an American accent by the way he said “chianti” as Hannibal Lecter. It’s jarring.
You know, I believe that South Carolina would be a lot better off if more of our lawmakers had a sense of irony about our own states foibles. If only we would all resolve to lighten up and “charitably tolerate” those whose ancestors did NOT fire on Fort Sumter. We need to clone James L. Petigru.
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This is one of my pet peeves: people who claim there is actually a proper way to pronounce a proper name. If your name is spelled B-O-B but you choose to call yourself Tom that’s your right. I say the fine people of Nevada can pronounce their state name anyway they like.
Besides Brad, haven’t you railed about outsiders interfering with the right of a state’s people to choose whomever they want in their elections?
Then again, is there nothing else for the people of Nevada to talk about but this? I guess folks everywhere like to spend time debating inconsequential issues.
Ekshully, Bred, the Brits, in some accents, use flat As for a lot of furrin words. They pronounce everything as if it were English…which they believe it should be, of course.
and Anthony Hopkins is Welsh, of course.
and the Canadians are worse–Paaasta.
And I thought Petigru was just the place you went for transcripts. Cool! Thanks for the history lesson 🙂
Can we get a resolution on “pecan”?
I’m not touching “pecan.” For one thing, I’m allergic to them. For another, my wife and I represent a mixed marriage on the subject of the proper pronunciation. I say “PEE-can;” she says “peh-CAHN.” I’m from SC; she’s from Memphis…
And Bud — I didn’t say Nevadans couldn’t pronounce it any way they want. It’s just that, having been bilingual in my childhood, I can’t conceive of saying that word — and their proper name IS a word, with a proper pronunciation — the way they say it. All sorts of alarms would go off in my head.
And yes, Kathryn, the English (and to an American ear, Hopkins is an English actor) have this sort of imperialistic thing in which they insist on anglicizing foreign words and names, as though they were “correcting” those languages, or appropriating them.
But I don’t see the way he said “chianti” as being British at all. Sounded hyper-American to me.
According to several websites, the pronunciation of “pecan” varies widely by region–there are eleven regional variants, apparently.
Let’s Call the Whole Thing Off!”
–except I have never heard anyone say “potahto.”
Speaking of foreign countries, my son just left today on his way to New York City to make his fortune. I hated to see him go but he needed a change. Hopefully this will be good for him. I gave him an assignment. He’s to find restaraunts that serve (1) Mustard based pork BBQ, (2) grits and (3) fried okra. I’m pretty sure you can buy grits in a grocery store but do they serve them in restaraunts? That’s my son’s job to find out.
Posh Brits pronounce “ballet” an awful lot like “belly”–“baal-i”–they use a flatter a for a lot of foreign words–and this American can tell a Welshman from an Englishman. Listen for the musical lilt, for one thing, and the flattening of a lot of vowels.
But Kathryn, did you listen to the clip? The way he said “chianti” was way sarcastic. He was exaggerating the pronunciation as though making fun.
Never having watched the whole film, though, I don’t know the context. I’ve just seen that clip a lot, and am always struck by what he does with that word…
@bud,
There are many good restaurants in Harlem that do serve mustard based pork BBQ, grits, and fried okra. Your son will have to seek them out. May want to try Sylvia’s first. When I traveled to NY, it was a great place to find authentic Southern cuisine. I am sure there are others but that one comes to mind.
And, unless he goes to a soul food store in Harlem, it is unlikely he will find “grits” in the grocery store, especially stone ground yellow grits.
I couldn’t find them in Garden City, Long Island when my business partner wanted to try Shrimp & Grits.
Bart and Bud,
I always found Sylvia’s overrated, more a place where tour groups go. In Harlem, Charles’ is the place:
http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/charles-southern-style-kitchen/
and when I craved carolina style bbq, I went to
Carolina Country Kitchen in Bed-Stuy, on Saratoga Avenue in Brooklyn (A train to Ralph Avenue). However, eastern NC style. Was not aware of a mustard-sauce place, but I was an expatriate NC-er, so had not come to appreciate SC style the way I have since moving here.
Oops, Bud…just checked and found that Charles’ is closed. But I know there are better (and cheaper) alternatives to Sylvia’s in Harlem.
@ Bart and bud–
You can buy Quaker Instant Grits (ew) in Chicago grocery stores. You can also buy Anson Mill Grits at Charlie Trotter’s tres expensive restaurant–not much in between, alas. Try polenta…
Let’s ask linguist Dan Quayle to settle this mess!
I say PEE-can and I will continue to say ne-VAH-dah.
@bart mentions about grits in Harlem. I assume that he is talking about Harlem, NY instead of Harlem, GA.
There is a Quaker Oats plant in Cedar Rapids, IA. Most days of the week, they would be pumping out oatmeat; other days, they would be processing grits. Needless to say, whatever Quaker Oats was processing that day would drift to downtown Cedar Rapids.
Oatmeal? Ugh! Grits? Ugh! And I grew up in Nikki Haley’s hometown of Bamberg, SC. Grits has to have something else in it, like shrimp and sausage, to make it appealing. Plain grits? Absolutely not!
Colorado is Kol’-or-ad’-oh according to people from there.
If one is from Albany, Georgia, Albany is pronounced Awl’binny.
@bud – remember Hamilton Jordan (jer’din) from the Carter years?
And Brad, it’s “peh-CAHN”;)
It’s strange that you prefer NeVAHda over the local pronunciation yet poke fun at Obama’s use of PAHkisTAHN.
Shall I open the can of worms that is Lancaster, SC? Locals say LANcuster, with the emphasis on the first syllable and no long A in the middle. They’ll tell you if you say it the other way you must be talking about the one in PA.
Hey, in my reporting days I had to cover (and live in) Trenton, TN, which the locals called “Trennon,” and the neighboring Milan, which was called “MILE-un.” Ow.
Actually, thinking back, it was more like “MY-lun.”
My family is from Louisiana, which is not Loo-WEE-zi-ana, it’s more like LOO-uh-zi-ana, the way my grandmother used to say it, though I’ve been here since I was 3 in 1973. We say Pu-KAHN.
Can we get at least journalists to pronounce “Pulitzer” correctly? It’s Pull-itzer, not Pew-litzer.
I like the style where you use the locals’ preferred way, whatever it is–Lou-uh-vl, say, unless it is a foreign place with a foreign tongue–
Muenchen sounds wrong when we have Munich, when speaking in English. You don’t say “Paree” for Paris, France.
FYI, Muenchen is not close to the phonetic way to pronounce Münich in German. I’m from Texas and have studied German in college. You picked a tricky one since it has 2 sounds that aren’t in the English language.
Regarding the umlaut u: Mün- is somewhere between ‘moon’ and ‘men’.
the -ich in Münich is -ihhhh with a strong aspirated ‘h’ sound.
some words like nich and nach and Münich have that strong but soft ‘h’ sound, while other words like
reich, a lot of Germans make it more harsh and add a little distortion, with some east Germans adding a lot of distortion.
similar to the ‘q’ or ‘kh’ sound in Arabic or Farsi (Persian), basically the ‘ch’ at the end of a syllable in German is either a super soft way of say the ‘k’ sound without fully attacking, or super distorted or gutteral in the back of the throat.
Funny…Trenton is like Clinton – Clinnon. And then there’s Climp’sun…
Update: To my great surprise my son sent me a text photo of a big plate of mustard-based BBQ from Brooklyn, NY. I thought the only place in the world you could that was in the midlands of SC.
@ bud–
There’s a cool little diner on Congress St (not the tourist section) of Portland ME called Hot Suppa. The owners are Mainers who traveled around finding little local gems to copy for their menu. One of their greatest hits is mustard-based barbecue. Imagine our surprise, and it was actually very very good!