Join me at the lieutenant gov debate

Well, I’ve set the DVR for the second debate between Nikki Haley and Vincent Sheheen, as I have a conflict.

I’ll be moderating the debate between the lieutenant governor candidates at 7:30 p.m., as reported by The State:

AARP is holding a candidate forum tonight for the candidates for lieutenant governor tonight.

Republican Ken Ard of Florence and Democrat Ashley Cooper of Charleston will appear at the Brookland Baptist Conference Center in West Columbia to discuss senior related issues.

The state’s lieutenant governor runs the S.C. Office on Aging.

The event starts at 7:30 p.m.

Brad Warthen, former State newspaper editorial page editor, will moderate the event.

AARP’s Create the Good effort will collect non-perishable food items for local food pantries.

If y’all want to comment on the gov debate while I’m gone, go ahead and start here. I’ll watch it later and respond to your comments.

Meanwhile, if you’re so inclined, there’s just time to make it to the AARP debate. Perhaps I’ll see you there.

22 thoughts on “Join me at the lieutenant gov debate

  1. The Right Indignant Kathryn Braun Fenner (Mrs. Stephen A.)

    But I usually don’t go to bed so early….zzzzzzzz

  2. Barry

    Sorry Brad- just not interested in the Lt Governor debate. Already saw one – and that was enough for me.

    Watching the Governor debate now.

    Rep Haley just butchered her explanation of Act 388. Even the moderator questioned her on her facts.

  3. Joanne

    I watched the Sheheen-Haley debate, which turned into a Nikki-mandate for the faith-based organizations and businesses to pick up the support of the poor when the state can’t.

    Gird your budgets!

    (On the other hand, however, I think she’d be a great auctioneer, and I was impressed that she had obviously practiced saying “faith-based” very quickly. It’s not easy. Try it.)

  4. Brad

    Well I watched the gov debate after moderating the other, and here’s a quick general description of the difference between them: The Lt. Gov. candidates have differing opinions and different political worldviews. But they don’t differ about what reality is, and don’t have to keep arguing about it so that we never get to the differences of opinion. So we had a very civil and relevant debate about issues.

    Not so with the governor’s race. And that’s because of Nikki. Because she keeps aggressively misrepresenting the truth. And Vincent calls her on it. And she responds, not with relevant discussions of fact, but with more ideological bumper stickers.

    An average voter who doesn’t know the score could be forgiven for not knowing which to believe or trust. And that’s Vincent’s great vulnerability. Those of us who have considerable knowledge of the issues, who know what happened regarding the events being described and who have followed the many, many revelations in this campaign know that Vincent is telling the truth and Nikki is not. Can others tell? Yes, he seems much more sincere to me, but is it that he actually seems that way, or that I just happen to know objectively that he’s telling the truth, and therefore I know he actually IS sincere? I don’t know, and I worry that Nikki continues to fool people. Because with so many of the voters, it’s the SEEMING that counts…

  5. Joanne

    And to exacerbate the problem, Brad, WIS gathered a trio of “voters” who watched the debate: a Republican, a woman whose husband owns a business and who admittedly was leaning toward Haley, and a young lady who said she was open-minded but just looked blank. They all gave their “unbiased” opinion, which I’m sure was the opinion that went to bed with most of the viewers.

    Guess what it was…
    So much for unbiased.

  6. Mark Stewart

    The Lt. Governor’s race is on of those rarities in SC; two qualified candidates. We don’t get that enough.

    Both parties need to take responsibility for their candidates – Just say no to dingos. Backroom politics has a role to play in our system, though that comes with the responsibility to push qualified, electable candidates.

  7. burt

    I may fall into the camp that is not as knowledgeable of the issues as you and my quick take from the debate was that Nikki clearly won. However, she is scary because she can’t seem to acknowledge any of the criticisms of her. I can’t imagine her admitting to making a mistake, though she had the opportunity with her response to the ESC issue. Instead, she spun it to portray herself as the most ethical small-business owner you have ever known.
    Vincent smiles a lot and doesn’t really convince me that he is serious about cracking down on problems in the state. I get the impression, from the debate, that he is a go along to get along kind of guy, which has worked for him in the legislature. I hope that’s not the case, because Nikki talks a good game, but her background is pretty disturbing.
    I don’t mind Nikki’s talk of running the government like a business, because that is a lot of what is taught in public administration classes these days and has worked in other parts of the country. But she delivers those sound bites with such clarity that it makes me shiver…

  8. bud

    The latest 538 analysis shows Haley with a 94% chance of winning. Just can’t understand what the voters see in her. Clearly she’s not honest nor is she particularly bright. This seems like a very easy call. Vincent is conservative (not moderate and certainly not liberal). But at least he’s an intelligent, thoughtful man who appears to genuinely want to serve the people of South Carolina. Haley comes across as a woman in it to feather her own nest.

  9. Lynn T

    Haley’s supporters probably heard what they wanted to hear from her last night. She said that paying to educate poor children and maintain public resources for a civilized society should be voluntary. In short, you don’t have to do it, just as she doesn’t do it when she donates less than half a percent of her income to charity. The evidence suggests that she is very sincere about this, and it is a very attractive position for many voters.

  10. Doug Ross


    It’s not about whether public resources should be voluntarily given to support society as a whole. It’s about how the public resources which are taken involuntarily are used. When the size of government continues to grow and the results don’t match the growth, the people who contribute the most have a right to complain and elect people who will hopefully do something about it. The state budget is 50% larger now than it was a decade ago. The public schools receive more money than ever. And the results don’t reflect the increased spending. It’s that simple. You rarely hear people complain about the cost of libraries, fire departments, police, state parks. Why? Because they do a good job for we citizens pay for.

  11. Phillip

    Bud, you ask what do the voters see in Haley? The truth is, most don’t “need” to see anything. It’s “faith-based” if you will, that is, faith in a certain ideology that rises almost to a religious level. She’s got that “R” by her name, folks know that Sarah Palin came down here to endorse her, and that’s all her voters needed to know in June, and no facts are going to get in the way of their ideology in October. Just smile, Nikki, and repeat: government bad, business and faith good. Besides, being “particularly bright,” Bud, is suspicious in the current climate, a sign of elitism.

    Ms. Haley may have had all the voters she probably needed by midsummer; since then, it’s been ball-control offense all the way as the lead has shrunk. The only hope is that in this particular race, the more motivated voters may actually turn out to be the Sheheen side, more aghast at the idea of Governor Haley than vice versa. Because of that, I’m still sticking my neck out and predicting a stunning upset for VS in an election that may be so close as to require a recount.

  12. Ms. Language Person-Fenner (Mrs. Stephen A.)

    “for not knowing which to believe or trust.”
    People are properly referred to as “who” or “whom.”

  13. Comrade Fenner (Mrs. Stephen A.)

    I was struck by Haley’s idea that the churches will take up the slack–possibly a chance in Columbia, where there is wealth to be spread around–Trinity Cathedral does amazing things at St. Lawrence Place, for example, but what about the deep pockets of poverty in out-of-the-way places (like Allendale, which was hit with baseball-sized hail yesterday–what’s next — locusts? Is this a message from God?). Do any of your churches/synagogues/other faith-based groups help out significantly in SC places outside the Midlands?

  14. Kathryn Fenner

    @Lynn T — Heck, she seems to think that paying your taxes and remitting employee withholdings is voluntary, too.

    What else does she think is voluntary? Honoring your marriage vows? Telling the truth? Checking in with reality from time to time?

  15. Barry

    Ms. Haley’s “let the faith based groups do it” is pure baloney.

    I belong to a rather large church in Columbia. Budgets are hurting at churches everywhere. We have had meeting after meeting about cut backs at the church (salaries included).

    There is no way in this world that faith based groups are going to get involved in 4 K kindergarten programs – unless they already have such a program. Such programs are expensive undertakings. Most churches don’t haev the facilities that could even accomodate such programs.

    It sounds good- but it’s baloney. I wish Sen Sheheen had called her on it.

  16. bud

    Phillip, as a long-time bean counter it appears pretty obvious that Haley is going to win. The polling is just too much to overcome. It’s really scary to live in a state where people really don’t seem to care that Haley simply did not pay her taxes on time and even did not file her return. And she’s an accountant!

    Then again, if you look at just the facts it is apparent that the GOP is a marketing super power. The most prosperous times in America, BY FAR, take place whenever a Democrat occupies the White House. Yet folks will continue to beat the drum for the GOP. Remember the highway sign in Newberry County that showed the arrow pointing to the left beside Clinton and to the right beside Prosperity. That was widely circulated in the 1992 presidential campaign. Yet the Clinton years were probably the mose prosperous in American history. But folks continue to vote for people like Haley who simply spout off the same old stale propaganda.

  17. Barry

    and Ms. Haley’s position that ACT 388 didn’t hurt education funding was either a lie – or a demonstration of ignorance.

    I think she was lying. She knows most folks in South Carolina don’t have a clue about Act 388. So she plays on their ignorance.

  18. Brad

    Now see, that’s a tough call. Does she know better? I don’t know. What I have decided, though, is that she does not CARE what the facts are. I have seldom run across anyone in public life more comfortable with believing what it is convenient for her to believe (such as, that government should be “run like a business”), and utterly uninterested in learning that she is wrong.

    I used to find this calm assurance that she was right vaguely charming, when she was a back bencher who I THOUGHT would learn better eventually. But she didn’t wait around for that. She decided (consciously or otherwise) that ignorance was a wonderful campaign strategy, and it certainly has done well for her so far.

    I guess in a way, I’m trying to pay her a compliment here, saying that she doesn’t really MEAN to lie. But her insouciance toward whether something is true or not is just as bad, as far as South Carolina’s interests are concerned.

  19. Kathryn "Blue" Fenner

    Y’know, Brad, I believe you’re on to something. Depressives have been shown to be extremely accurate about the real world as it is–it stands to reason that the sort of manic person who runs for office, shooting the moon, would be genuinely out of touch.

    As Barbara Ehrenreich so brilliantly has written, we love our rainbow-colored delusions–if we just managed our time/budgets/whatever better, we could have it all! Only depressive grouches like you and me have to spoil it all by explaining that you can’t have your cake and eat it, too–the miracle of the loaves and fishes was just that: a miracle. Unless some believes herself to be the Second Coming, she would not put herself in Miracle Worker sandals. Since she does just that, she must believe!

  20. KP

    KB – HA! I once took a personality test that reported this: You are a pessimist. Unfortunately, you are usually right.

  21. Shannon aka Scout

    She lives in a fantasy world if she thinks an army of faith based volunteers and corporations is going to march into rural South Carolina and save the day.

    I think her math on that one is similar to her math on the department of education employees and teacher layoff issues. She’d like it to be that way but that doesn’t make it so. The trouble is she doesn’t look very far under the surface to fact-check her delusions. Oh I do think she honestly believes them though.

    I wish Vincent would have driven home the irony in the debate tonight (the one in Florence) that her misperception of the # of department of ed employees was precisely because the department of ed did exactly what she was jubilantly accusing them of not doing – i.e. cutting administrative jobs due to budget constraints.

    Phillip, I so hope you are right.

  22. Kathryn "Blue" Fenner

    @KP– Myers-Briggs Introvert Intuitive Thinker?

    I am not that way by personality–ENFJ, but by temperament. Lots of workin’ cognitive behavioral techniques– “Don’t be a mind reader.” “Don’t awfulize/catastrophize.” etc. has led me astray more times than I can count or wish to remember.

    Now, we may be accurate about the present, but there is always opportunity for things to get better and they certainly will change. So….

    I’m for hopey-changey, even if I realize I can imagine so much better a world than will actually ever likely exist.

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