My last post indicates that y’all are warmed up and ready to comment at length on serious topics today. Well, comment on whatever you like. If you can’t think of anything right away, here are some possible conversation-starters:
- Gathering of Republicans, Democrats, activists, victims celebrate Emma’s Law at State House — I think this is wonderful. At the same time, I mourn the fact that a precious child had to die to bring our elected leaders together around sensible policy this way.
- U.S. Economic Growth Slows To a Crawl in First Quarter — I’m not an economist, but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that doesn’t sound too good.
- Senate GOP blocks minimum wage increase — I know what Democrats will say about this, and I know what Republicans will say. But what do y’all think?
- Kiev ‘helpless’ in east Ukraine — Hate to see the good guys, or those I perceive as the relative good guys, at such an impasse. (Actually, I wish I had saved that Ariail cartoon to go with THIS post.)
- White House: Executions must be done humanely — Anybody else see that as a tad oxymoronic?
Or, pick your own topic…
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And yet, in spite of those bad growth numbers, the Dow just closed at a record high, erasing losses for the year — our first day in 2014 in the black.
I think I need Jed Bartlet to explain this one to me…
It would be great if someone could explain to this uneducated, uninformed old man why the Dow closed at record highs and on the same day, the US economic growth slowed to a crawl in the first quarter. Obviously, the Dow and the economy are not connected nor does one influence the other. At least that is conclusion most casual observers would reach.
Apparently, the market liked the fact that the Fed announced it was stopping its bond-buying stimulus program. I THINK that’s right…
The market ain’t what it used to be, what with all them computers and the like….
Oh, drat them. They’re so naughty, and so complex… http://soundb.us/s/oh-drat-these-computers-they-re-so-naughty-and-so-complex-i-could-pinch-them
Yep, that’s gotta be the answer, all them computers.
The market essentially acts as a future indicator of the economy. It’s also an outlet for all of the extra cash the Fed has pumped out into the economy. Cheap interest rates (margin rates) push up stock prices.
OK, folks; I thought y’all loved Open Threads… where’d everybody go?
Very busy day – first time I’ve had a chance to look.
Well, Scout, some of us have to go out and earn a living. Atticus would understand…
Had no real problem with increasing the minimum wage slowly over a few years to $10 an hour.
They need to get the drug mixture right on executions. However, I didn’t really have a problem with it screwing up for this particular bad guy. In fact, I wouldn’t have minded if it had set him on fire.
That’s what we do in the states that still have the electric chair.
Make no mistake; I’m opposed to the death penalty. But if we have to have it, I prefer the firing squad. If I were condemned, that’s the way I’d want to go…
It’s six to five and pick ’em that 1Q GDP is revised downwards to a negative number.
If we are going to have capital punishment:
1) All executions should be public, anyone who wants to witness them should be allowed to.
2) Firing squad, gibbet, Guillotine, ol’ Sparky, gas chamber, whatever method we want should be permitted. Victim’s family should be allowed to choose. If they are unavailable, a “Wheel of Misfortune” should be used to randomly select a method.
The victim’s family should be the LAST people allowed to choose, in a country such as ours that aspires to be governed by laws, not by men.
That’s the same as one of my objections to abortion on demand. If someone is going to decide whether the unborn lives or dies, it certainly shouldn’t be the one (born) person with the greatest direct interest in the outcome. And even if that person were involved, it most certainly shouldn’t be a unilateral decision.
Murderers get a trial by jury, and we keep interested parties off the jury. That’s an important principle under the rule of law, and should not be compromised in any life-and-death situation…
Brad, you missed my point. The jury trial should be fair and impartial. The victim’s family should only be able to choose the method of execution, if there is to be one.
Your abortion comment is certainly a head-smacker. Talk about non-sequiturs …
I think he’s just trying to bump up the hit counts today, Mark.
No, in fact I sort of cringe a bit when I say something like that, thinking, “Here we go again.”
But it was the first thing that came to mind as a way of showing how I think the same principle works, whatever the issue. I’ve made that due-process point about abortion before; there was nothing new about it. I was just saying that I hold the same position on this that I do on that — the most interested parties should not get to make unilateral decisions in matters of life-and-death.
And if y’all want to argue with it, I would MUCH prefer that you explain to me why a victim’s family should get to pick a killer’s punishment, and just let the abortion thing go. I HATE those discussions…
I don’t think victims’ families should have a say in the punishment of a crime.
At the same time, I cannot wrap my head around how that situation could possibly be of the same philosophical structure as abortion.
Well, I explained it as well as I could without going on and on about it. Suffice it to say, my reasoning is the same in both cases.
The whole death penalty thing is a disgrace to us as a nation. It is wrong on soooooo many levels. Let’s get rid of the damn thing once and for all. Studies show that it is not a deterent to murder but is likely a murder magnet. Then we have these abominable executions that disgrace the very fabric of our nation and the sensibilities of anyone who has a conscience.
While capital punishment may not be a deterrent (the rarity of its use essentially guarantees this), the recidivism rate is low. I mean, there are very few repeat offenders. So it works in that regard very well.
I believe in second chances. Drug users and thieves aren’t the same category of serial rapists and murderers.
Some people deserve second chances. Other people are evil – and don’t deserve second chances. There are some people that you can’t put back into society.
If you’re not going to kill them the only alternative is life in prison with no chance for parole. And these folks don’t make model inmates. They have no problem hurting/killing correctional officers or other inmates.
You could put the evil people in solitary confinement, but that’s arguably more cruel than killing them.
We should not take capital punishment off the table for the most hardcore evil cases.
Agreed. Let’s drop the “deterrent” argument. It’s irrelevant. Capital PUNISHMENT is what it is: punishment. There are crimes that reflect a level of evil that deserves the most harsh punishment possible. If it makes some people queasy, too bad.
A guy who would put a backpack bomb at a marathon finish line doesn’t deserve to spend 40 years or more in prison. The families he destroyed deserve to see him die and be gone from this Earth rather than live as a constant reminder of their pain for 40-50 years.
What about those families that DON’T want to see the Bastard executed? Shouldn’t their wishes be considered?
I’m not just suggesting capital punishment is a non-deterrent. Rather it is actually a highly effective promotional campaign for killing that draws in killers to the “joy” of killing and the romance of killing. Why do you think Ted Bundy chose Florida to continue his killing spree? These psychos associate the celebrity of the condemned killers as some sort of rock stars. That’s the very worst part of capital punishment, the negative deterrent effect. Add the 4% false execution rate, abhorrent inhumane cruelty that reflects negatively on our humanity and finally the extreme cost involved and we have zero reason for keeping this atrocity.
And statistics back you up, bud
The death penalty and LWOP are useful as bargaining chips to get offenders to plea.
I can’t remember where I was reading this, but someone was making the point that our lethal injection system is very similar to how we put animals down. We used to have condemned people die like men (hangings, firing squads, etc.). Now we put them down like animals.
I know its macabre (or morbid, I’m not sure which) but to me, there’s a certain dignity in dying like a man (via hanging or firing squad) that you don’t get with lethal injection.
Personally, I’d take a firing squad. I hate the thought of a hanging. I don’t even like it when my necktie is too tight.
I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather did. Not like the people who were riding in the car with him at the time.
What I dislike about lethal injection is that it is cold and clinical, and a twisted perversion of medicine. It chills my blood. Medical techniques should not be employed in the service of killing human beings. Whether you’re talking deterrence or retribution, I say that if you must have the death penalty, answer violence with violence.
Don’t try to dress it up and make it seems less offensive (which to me is MORE offensive). Have the bullets rip into the flesh of the condemned. Have him fall and bleed.
As Bryan says, “we used to have condemned people die like men.” And in killing them that way, we were more like men ourselves…
And hanging and the guillotine are just too macabre. A firing squad is frank and direct, and it is honest about being an act of violence.
Same with electrocution. Ol Sparky seems just about right.
It seems to me that pretty much any method that humans have dreamed up in an effort to make capital punishment more “humane” has made it more bizarre and offensive. And to me, the worst is lethal injection. With hanging a close second.
More humane shouldn’t be an issue for the worst of the worst. Avoiding cruel and unusual should be.
The “essential predicate” is “that a punishment must not by its severity be degrading to human dignity,” especially torture.
“A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion.”
“A severe punishment that is clearly and totally rejected throughout society.”
“A severe punishment that is patently unnecessary.”
In keeping with this “effective promotional campaign” theme for the death penalty I came up with some slogans that could be used to promote various death penalty options.
Hanging: Things go Better with Choke
Electric Chair: I’d Walk a Green Mile for a Zapping
Firing Squad: Sail with the Gunmen. All the Way. Get on Board a Firing Squad Today
Gas Chamber: Gas it Your Way
Guillotine: Get a Close, Close Shave with the National Razor
and finally
Stoning: Throw a Stone, and then another Stone and then another Stone and then you’ve tossed 3 Stones
Forgot one. Lethal Injection: Leave the USA in a Lethal Way