I’ve had trouble this summer keeping up with my commitment, stated back when I started this blog, to let you know about meetings the editorial board has with newsmakers and other guests — although I have reported the main ones. I did mention Gresham Barrett the other day, and today I’ll catch up by telling you about Sen. Jim DeMint’s meeting with us back on Tuesday. (And by the way, 
the picture is not from our meeting. It’s an AP photo of the senator talking about bringing a new nuclear power facility to the Savannah River Site during a press conference in Aiken a week earlier.)
It was fairly uneventful — Lee Bandy, who was there as an observer representing the newsroom, didn’t write anything live off of it — but there were a few items of interest worth sharing:
- First, he was fairly proud of having held the federal highway bill’s gargantuan total down to something close to what the White House had wanted, while managing to help South Carolina out in some significant ways. Since Cindi Scoppe is going to address that S.C. impact in the paper in the next few days, I’ll leave elaboration on that point to her.
- Rest assured, Gov. Sanford — this is one Republican who is not coming after your job. Rather than criticize the governor’s performance on ecodevo, or complain that he’s hard to work with in that area, Sen. DeMint said, "We work well with him." He added that "I feel we’re poised for incredible growth in the state." Besides, "We’re not easy to reach, either."
- He said he thought it strange that Majority Leader Bill Frist, who generally keeps a low profile on issues and works for consensus within the caucus, should choose to get out in front on stem cells, of all things. He also noted that folks keep defining the issue inaccurately: "The issue isn’t whether we do research; it’s whether the federal government pays for it." Good point, that.
- It was good to hear him say that he’s learned a lot from traveling to the world’s hot spots and learning about foreign affairs. "You’re expected as a senator to be involved with that," he said. I’m glad he realizes that now. Last year, when I asked him to talk about America’s role in the world, he sort of blinked and said something along the lines of, "You mean, besides trade?"
- He talked for a while about his health plan, which he said stresses "individual ownership" and portability. But the most interesting thing he said on the subject — and somehow we got onto another subject before following up with questions (something I need to do the next time I talk to him) — was this: "We’ve got to go there (meaning something like his plan), or we’re going to go to national health care relatively soon, because where we are is not going to work." At this morning’s board meeting, we were discussing that, and sort of kicking ourselves that we didn’t get him to elaborate.
- Scared me no end by suggesting it would be possible to draw down U.S. troops somewhat in 2006. I continue to believe that would be suicidal; we need to go the other way, if anything.
I’ve been getting comments from anti-war folks upset because in my Wednesday column I said that withdrawing from Iraq now would be like "spitting on the graves of the 1,800 who have already given their lives." Well, I stand by that statement, and I add a corollary: If Republicans pull us out of Iraq in order to help themselves get re-elected, they’ll be doing something even worse than that.
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No, Brad. You said, “But when people say “support the troops by bringing them home,” I see it as spitting on the graves of the 1,800 who have already given their lives.”
Your sentence re-arranged (minus the “But”) reads:
I see it as spitting on the graves of the 1,800 who have already given their lives when people say “support the troops by bringing them home.”
Obviously, your main point is that you vehemently object to people saying that we should support the troops by bringing them home. Of course, this bit of demagoguery is prefaced by your linkage of those who oppose your view as being the ones during Vietnam who were, “spitting (figuratively if not literally) on returning veterans.” In your view, the attitudes of these bad people should be confronted “directly”, since these folks in your twisted mind, take the untenable position of supporting the troops, but not the war.
You’re not going to lie your way out of this one. You want people who don’t agree with you to shut up by ostracizing them as being some kind of traitors. No Brad, people who disagree with you aren’t traitors-many of the people you are trying to scapegoat have done more for this country than you ever have done, or will ever do, not only in a military sense, but in their duty to their community, state, and country.
You are still trying to fight and win Vietnam vicariously through the blood of our soldiers in Iraq. Blood and guts Warthen-their blood, your guts. Vietnam is over-and the war is lost. It’s over-done-kaput. Be a man about it for once. If you were so hell fire against the commies and the hippies, then why didn’t you join the military and go do something about it. You could have wielded an M-16 just as good as the working class and poor people who you have since condemned with your Globalization agenda. Let me guess, you had other priorities. Maybe you were not old enough to join. Why didn’t you join the military after the war then? I want an answer! Give me an answer Mr. Hero Worshipper.
What about the rest of the so-called men who surround you? Why did they dodge the draft? Why don’t you ask them Brad? Do you give them a hard time? Nope. It’s a lot different when the cowards are from your own social/economic class isn’t it Brad? If your friends were for the Vietnam War, then why did they dodge the draft?
No one wanted to go to Vietnam because everybody knew that it was an imperialistic war to begin with. Sounds familiar doesn’t it. People did everything possible to get their kids out of harm’s way-college, graduate school, Canada, whatever. The poor and working class people couldn’t get out of the war, unlike privileged people such as you.
Now the onus is on the working class alone, people who you otherwise have no concern for-they’re doing your dirty work for you in the war while you sit in an air-conditioned office. The good jobs are gone, and yes, you and your hypocritical ilk are responsible for it. Go ahead, push Globalization to the hilt-the people are going to hold you accountable. Do it!
Brad, you twisted the words like you busted that Folks guy for doing, when you edited his op-ed.
Mark has a valid point. You’ve been beating the war drum pretty loud from the get-go. Do you ever think you were wrong, just a little? I kind of feel like that sometimes.
I don’t know. You seem a little smarter than most people though. Did most smart people know it wasn’t about mass weapons or whatever the whole time?
I guess that makes it easier, when you knew it was a, well I don’t want to call it a lie but a slight of hand to fake out the iraqis, I guess it makes it easier to still say the war was a good idea.
Or maybe I’m still missing the big picture. Sometimes I think its better that I don’t know, you know.
Brad, It seems to me your meeting with DeMint is an indicator that he is growing in the job, as expected, and he will evolve into a truly excellent senator for this state. DeMint understands the free enterprise system like few others as well as trade and taxes. There is not much I have found to not like about him.
As for the respondents focus on the war, I just have to shake my head (sideways). Somehow everything that this nation does to defend itself is “another” Vietnam. The weaklings of society back in that day forced LBJ from office and whined long enough to completely undermine the Vietnam military effort. We won that war militarily and lost it at home by the girly men like John Kerry, Tom Hayden, and lets not forget the traitor Jane Fonda, who symbolically spit on our troops. Today we have Michael Moore to continually tell this nation and the world how rotten our country and our economic system is, etc. To them, if we would only become socialists, put society on welfare, give free health care to all, free education to all, free food to all (Moore needs more of that), then the Muslim radicals would like us and we could all live in peace. My Friday rant…
“The issue isn’t whether we do research; it’s whether the federal government pays for it.” Good point, that.
It’s not a good point, its a disingenuous one. People who oppose stem cell research do it because they think it is immoral, not because they don’t think federal dollars should be paying for it.
If The State had an editorial board worth of the name, you would have asked a follow up question, “Sen. DeMint, since I assume you have no trouble with private funding for stem cell research, can I tell the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation that your check is in the mail?”
Mark and Amos,
If Mark has a point, I can’t see it. It is very clear from the body of my work that I believe the worst possible decision this nation could make at this point in history is to pull out of Iraq. It is patently obvious to anyone with good reading comprehension — because I state it so clearly — that I would consider Republicans pulling out for political expedience as being worse than “supporting the troops by bringing them home.” If you see something else there, it’s because you want to.
Chris, it most assuredly IS a good point. As you say, most people who oppose this funding do so because they believe the research itself is wrong. Of course, that means that if they fully understand that it’s about their tax dollars going to pay for it, they would quite naturally be even more passionately against it. You ignore (as people who care deeply about issues such as this tend to do) the obvious complement to that, which is that many if not most of the people who favor such funding — particularly those who respond emotionally to the appeal of people suffering with various diseases — are under the impression that this is about whether such research will take place at all, not about whether it will be funded by tax dollars. If they know better, you surely can’t tell it from their rhetoric, which always gives the impression that the only way such research will ever take place in this country is if those in Washington who oppose it change their minds or get outvoted.
When you get back to questioning him about his “health care plan,” ask him what’s wrong with having a national health care plan? Why don’t we want one?
Brad,
Yes, people who oppose stem cell research on moral grounds are even more opposed to paying for it out of their own pocket. But if you sincerely believe that stem cell research destroys human life for the purpose of experimentation, are you really going to feel better about it if it were privately funded?
There are two types of people in the anti-stem cell camp:
1. Fiscal conservatives, who support stem cell research in principle but don’t want it federally funded. (a defensible position considering scarce budgetary dollars)
2. Social conservatives who oppose stem cell research in all forms – public and private.
By confining the issue to a question of federal funding, we don’t know whether Sen. DeMint is in camp 1 or 2. And given most politicians’ willingness to obfuscate, that’s probably exactly what DeMint intended. Wouldn’t a follow up question that clarified his position been a useful public service?
It’s been my experience that if people support something, they are willing to pay for it – either with their own money or the public’s. And when they oppose something but don’t want to admit it, they cry poverty.
To analogize from a favorite hobby horse of yours, suppose Sen DeMint has said “The issue isn’t whether we educate children, it’s whether we use tax dollars to do it.” Would you consider that person to be pro-education? Of course not.
Of course not — because education is a prime state responsibility, enshrined in the S.C. constitution.
So how do the two compare? There is no kind of research that is a governmental responsibility in anything like the same way. Research of various kinds might be a wise policy for the government to pursue — but it’s certainly not a core function, much less constitutionally mandated.
By the way, if you were speaking of education in a federal context, I would say, as I always do, that the federal government really has no business interfering with education, much less spending money doing so. It is clearly a state responsibility, which is why we hammer so hard on the state to fund it properly. And it’s why we hammer Bush for spending so much on his meddling No Child Left Behind Act, which does little to help SC, and much to hamper our efforts here.
Mr. Warthen,
Did you know it wasn’t about mass weapons the whole time? You didn’t say. If you did, I think you should have told us. You are press after all, freedom of press and the whatnot.
Plus, with the stem cells thing, it is sounding like you are saying the government shouldn’t fund it even though it is good. Is that right? I think if it is good the goverment should pitch in money.
But I want your opinion as a educated person. Thanks Mr Warthen,
Amos
Mark –
Why do you persist with the ad hominem attacks. I told you that I’m a vet, I enlisted in the Army in 1971, re-enlisted in 1973, and was honorably discharged in 1977. With all your talk of manliness, you seem to overlook what being a man is all about.
Try reading this and decide who’s being silly and who’s being serious.
Rachelle asks what’s wrong with having a national health care plan? Why don’t we want one? (Brad, I’m working on a longer treatment of this for my blog.)
I assume she means what’s called a single-payer or universal access plan where the federal government either directly or indirectly provides healthcare for all citizens and is therefore the sole, or single, payer. The opposite would be a private or personal system where the government has little or no role. (The US has a hybrid, screwy system.)
What do other countries have? Canada has a universal health-care system that bans private insurance. Britain has a national health-care system but allows private clinics and insurance. Other European countries have a mix of private and government systems. In most of these countries the government plays the central role of licensing healthcare providers (physicians, nurses, etc.), setting prices for government-paid items (treatments, drugs, procedures, devices, etc.), and other duties as assigned.
Universal access advocates usually hold up the Canadian model as the ideal for the US. Every citizen gets a health card that entitles them to whatever treatment is deemed medically necessary. However, a recent evaluation of that nation’s system by the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, found that Canada spends more on health care than any other industrialized country providing universal access save Iceland and Switzerland, yet ranks low in measures of access to care. For example, it takes an average of 17.9 weeks between the time a patient makes an appointment to see a general practitioner and when he can then see a specialist. He will then be treated by a system that ranks 13th out of 22 advanced countries in access to MRI technology; 17th out of 21 in access to CT scanners and seventh out of 22 in access to radiation machines. Canada keeps its healthcare budget in check by pay for fewer physicians and spending less on technology and pharmaceuticals. This past June, a majority of Canada’s Supreme Court struck down a Quebec law that banned private health insurance and held that the public system inflicted cruel and unusual punishment on many of its patients.
The conclusion of the study is that Canada needs to institute user fees (co-payments) for services and allow private health insurance like other nations with universal access do. (You can download the full report from this page.
Reforming the National Health Service was a challenge Tony Blair set for himself when he came into office, but he’s had little success. When you visit the British Isles one of the first things you can’t help but notice is the inhabitant’s teeth. This article, originally printed in the August 12, 2003 edition of the New York Times tells you why. What seems to happen over time with universal access is that the number (both absolute and relative) of healthcare providers declines as part of the effort to wring savings out of the system. Healthcare providers in Britain have quite low wages despite their dedication and long years of education and training. This moving story compares British public and private healthcare with that of the US.
As for restoring some sanity to the US healthcare system, watch my blog. In the meantime, this article takes a look at the insurance crisis, who is not insured, and why insurance is expensive in some states. Here’s An Immodest Health Care Proposal that offers some insights into how the current US system works and how it could be made more affordable; the same guy wrote Be Careful What You Pay For.
Brad,
Would you answer the question, or are you going to let this lap-dog do your talking for you? Why didn’t you join the military given your disdain for the people who opposed the Vietnam War?
Woof, woof!
C’mon, Mark. By attacking what you view as Warthen’s motives you’re playing a petty “I’m better than you are, nyah, nyah, nyah.”
It’s fine to object to his opinion that withdrawing from Iraq now would be like “spitting on the graves of the 1,800 who have already given their lives.” Your tack of tying that back to Vietnam attitudes was a good, but then you made it personal by questioning his motives and attacking his character, not his argument. That’s a cheap trick that, like name-calling, happens all the time in politics, in the school yard, in taverns, and in blogs.
But Warthen has written enough about it and the rationale behind it on his blog (here, here, and here here for starters
) that you should be able to attack it with vigor using well-supported arguments. You’ve tried a bit, but then resort to name-calling.
You deal with my criticism by calling me one of these.
You’re at the point that you’re becoming irrelevant to the debate – your voice will be ignored in what is a very important discussion. Don’t put yourself in that position.
I’m still waiting for an answer. It doesn’t make sense. Your dad was a line officer in the US Navy during the peak of the Vietnam War, and somehow you never got a commission. You’re about the right age to have gone to Vietnam. If your father was an Academy man, then I know good and well that he wanted you to go to the Naval Academy. ROTC was available back then too. Heck, you could have always enlisted. Given your super-patriotism, and hatred of anti-war people, how is that you missed out on military service? If I felt like you did, nothing would have kept me out of the military-even well after the end of the war. Were you 4F or something?
Mark: to satisfy your curiosity, see the previous column in which he explained precisely why he didn’t serve in the military — they wouldn’t take him for health reasons (and anyway, he didn’t turn 18 until the end of 71). I’d give you the link in which he laments that fact, but I don’t know how to get into the archives.
Cheers
Whoa, I get back into town and find that the half-whit (sic) has rendered himself irrelevant.
Mark my words, some may suspect that you’re a fool; don’t prove them right by opening your mouth. This has nothing to do with your opinions and beliefs, but with how you deal with others in expressing yourself.
The break’s over, let the civility resume!
I really don’t know what’s become of us (as a nation). We’re so ready to have the gov’t hand things over to us (e.g. National Healthcare) and then we run amok crying ‘foul, foul, no fair’ when more and more of our choices (read: liberties) are taken away from – and administrated for – us.
Socialism will be the next destination, then Communism (economic model, not political). Two generations, ladies and gentlemen, two generations and the spirit of competitiveness, achievement and self-worth are going to be in the toilet.
Brad, as a member of the media, you need to ask more probing questions – of folks from both sides of the proverbial aisle. Becuase this ‘slide downward’ has to be abated, some way, some how.
Get Demint back and ask him point-blank… so, why IS this in the best interest of a capitalistic economy, why IS this in the best interest of the people – not Washington.
” The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism – ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power. ”
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Oh yeah, you guys hate FDR (you hate everybody who doesn’t agree with you).
Maybe you’ll believe the Libertarians (no friends of Social Democracy). Surprisingly, I agree with much that this man has to say:
The Reality of Red-State Fascism
Nordic countries have universal healthcare. They also have GDPs that rival the GDP of the US. Nordic countries measure better than the US in almost every category, yet they’re “socialist”. I’m shocked that you have not thought about nuking them yet. Social Democracy works, but no, we have to plunge into Fascism instead.
Better than Money
Nordic News Network
Maybe Brad will ask DeMint about his suicidal trade policy. In case you haven’t figured it out yet, SC has become part of the third-world economy. We’re going to get all of the low paying, crummy jobs (in the US), because the rules of capital investment dictate it. That’s why poor countries are so opposed to Globalization-they know that they’re going to lose.
Maybe Brad can ask Joe Wilson why he sold out SC and the US on CAFTA in the turncoat vote of decade.
That’s bright, now isn’t it? Give massive tax breaks to rich people and corporations outside of SC, while simultaneously opening your borders to a black hole of low wage global labor to undermine your own workforce. Outstanding!
Have faith though, it will all stabilize in the end. It will stabilize when the top 10% owns 90% of the wealth. Oh yeah, that top 10% will be mostly outside of SC in more affluent areas within the US. The flip side of Globalization-we’re going to get screwed.
The war-now there’s a winner. $50 billion here, $70 billion there-who cares? Neo-liberalism will save us. Let’s just go borrow more money. Hey, we can always cut Medicaid. Why stop with $10 Billion? Abolish the thing-tell the 850,000 people in SC who depend on it to get a job.
I say expand the war! Let’s attack Iran first, then loop around to Syria, make our way through Asia and attack North Korea, and then subdue the big prize-China. Shock and awe baby. Let’s teach those commies a lesson that they’ll never forget.
After we bring our troops home for a rest, let’s make a big push through Mexico and hammer directly into Central America and South America for a fine finish. Global domination at its best.
It’s a bright future.
Mark my words, some may suspect that you’re a fool; don’t prove them right by opening your mouth.
Those aren’t really YOUR words, Kid.
Mr. Whittington:
To paraphrase something my dad told me the late Senator J. Strom Thurmond said in a committee hearing, “Son, you seem like a nice fella. But I would advise you to seek mental counsel.”
Your comments are truly amazing, but bear no resemblance to reality.
In as much as I understand where Mark’s rant is coming from – and his logical arguments (cynicism withstanding) appear valid on the surface – I must take issue with the one thing he did NOT address.
Moral bankruptcy.
How many of those ‘Nordic’ countries would you leave your kid(s) under the care of a ‘national’?
I’m not saying that we’re a bunch of ‘angels’ here either. But, there’s a stronger current of new age dynamics at work that what proliferates our own population.
Sometimes what sets us apart from others is the collective conscienctiousness that can restrict us from acting out of our baser instincts.
Just additional food for thought.
Of course this has nothing to do with your opinions and beliefs, but with how you deal with others in expressing yourself.
Only in one condition a person can say truth withouth being suspected becasue he wants peoples to have a hint of madness from him.
Would you answer the question, or are you going to let this lap-dog do your talking for you? Why didn’t you join the military given your disdain for the people who opposed the Vietnam War?
Mark my words, some may suspect that you’re a fool; don’t prove them right by opening your mouth. This has nothing to do with your opinions and beliefs, but with how you deal with others in expressing yourself.
hi
hi
hi
hi
Obviously, your main point is that you vehemently object to people saying that we should support the troops by bringing them home. Of course, this bit of demagoguery is prefaced by your linkage of those who oppose your view as being the ones during Vietnam who were, “spitting (figuratively if not literally) on returning veterans.” In your view, the attitudes of these bad people should be confronted “directly”, since these folks in your twisted mind, take the untenable position of supporting the troops, but not the war.
You’re not going to lie your way out of this one. You want people who don’t agree with you to shut up by ostracizing them as being some kind of traitors. No Brad, people who disagree with you aren’t traitors-many of the people you are trying to scapegoat have done more for this country than you ever have done, or will ever do, not only in a military sense, but in their duty to their community, state, and country.
You are still trying to fight and win Vietnam vicariously through the blood of our soldiers in Iraq. Blood and guts Warthen-their blood, your guts. Vietnam is over-and the war is lost. It’s over-done-kaput. Be a man about it for once. If you were so hell fire against the commies and the hippies, then why didn’t you join the military and go do something about it. You could have wielded an M-16 just as good as the working class and poor people who you have since condemned with your Globalization agenda. Let me guess, you had other priorities. Maybe you were not old enough to join. Why didn’t you join the military after the war then? I want an answer! Give me an answer Mr. Hero Worshipper.
What about the rest of the so-called men who surround you? Why did they dodge the draft? Why don’t you ask them Brad? Do you give them a hard time? Nope. It’s a lot different when the cowards are from your own social/economic class isn’t it Brad? If your friends were for the Vietnam War, then why did they dodge the draft?
No one wanted to go to Vietnam because everybody knew that it was an imperialistic war to begin with. Sounds familiar doesn’t it. People did everything possible to get their kids out of harm’s way-college, graduate school, Canada, whatever. The poor and working class people couldn’t get out of the war, unlike privileged people such as you.
Now the onus is on the working class alone, people who you otherwise have no concern for-they’re doing your dirty work for you in the war while you sit in an air-conditioned office. The good jobs are gone, and yes, you and your hypocritical ilk are responsible for it. Go ahead, push Globalization to the hilt-the people are going to hold you accountable. Do it!
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The Rolling Stones postpone a show in the US to allow singer Sir Mick Jagger time to rest his voice.
The Rolling Stones postpone a show in the US to allow singer Sir Mick Jagger time to rest his voice.
Classical singer Russell Watson postpones his forthcoming UK tour after undergoing brain surgery.
Veteran game show host Bob Barker is stepping down from hosting The Price is Right after 35 years.
Veteran game show host Bob Barker is stepping down from hosting The Price is Right after 35 years.
Singer George Michael lends the piano on which John Lennon wrote Imagine to an anti-war exhibition.
Honesty, integrity and a persuasive mentality are the most important qualities of an elected official
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Al consumo critico antiracket lÒOscar della partecipazione civica
I can’t be bothered with anything lately, but that’s how it is. Nothing seems important, but what can I say? Shrug.
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that last comment was awful…come on man!