Expect to hear something in the next few days about a public effort to try to get the flag down. It’s either get started in the next few days, or forget about it until next year, with the Legislature set to shut down the first week of June. It might not be until next week, though, since the first elected official to express an interest was Mayor Bob, and he’s out of the country until Friday.
(Watch for lawmakers to say, "Why are you bringing this up at the last minute?" As if it hadn’t been there since 1962, and as if we hadn’t been writing about it over and over since at least 1994 — which is the earliest I can vouch for.)
Tomorrow, we’ll have our first editorial since the Spurrier remarks, and a column by me, on the editorial page. We’ll also have an op-ed piece related to the subject by Charleston Mayor Joe Riley, which I just received a few minutes ago.
Mayor Joe has an idea very similar to the one I posted from city forester Carroll Williamson. Here’s an excerpt:
By my count, if there was a flag representing the government for each war that South Carolinians have fought in, there would be 11 in addition to the Confederate Flag. What a beautiful sight this new monument would be in front of our State Capitol. Even more important, what a wonderful unifying and hallowed place this would become, a place where every South Carolinian who fought and died for our state and our country would be remembered forever. These 12 flags could easily fit inside this grassy rectangle with space on either side of the walkway for future wars. While we hope and pray that these wars will not occur, history tells us that they will.
It’s also similar to an idea John Courson was floating back in 2000, which I referred to in my column on the day the flag came off the dome.
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Brad:
Are you talking about getting legislation passed this year? Doesn’t one body have to pass it before May 1 in order for the other body to consider it this legislative session?
“…a flag representing the government for each war that South Carolinians have fought in…” Does that mean the governments we fought against?
I’m not crazy about the mayor’s idea myself, a fact that I shared with him. As I said, OK, these would be mostly American flags, only distinguishable by the numbers of stars, right? So from more than a few feet away, it would look just like a bunch of American flags and a Confederate flag sticking out like a sore big toe. How does that help?
He thought it wouldn’t be too bad. But I’ve gotten to where I have no patience left for compromising with something that just doesn’t make any sense. South Carolina doesn’t get anywhere because we’re always compromising somewhere between common sense and just plain crazy, and at every step in the legislative process — each committee, each subcommitte, etc. — the latest “compromise” pulls the bill a little bit more back toward crazy.
The flag should be in a museum, not flying.
The only way the confederate flag will ever be removed from the Statehouse grounds is if Sen. McConnell agrees to it. That’s not likely to happen (unless it’s replaced with a replica of the Hunley).
Any effort to remove the flag shouldn’t be wasted on all citizens or all legislators. Editorials and advocacy efforts should be focused like a laser on the leadership in the SC House and Senate. Those few are the “deciders” on this issue.
Oh please, let’s not have yet another flag flying monument. Just put it in a case in the State Museum. People can go in there and throw flowers at it or bow down in front of it or whatever they want to do, but please not on the State House grounds.
To fly that flag where it is and then expect others not to feature it prominently when filming/reporting here is absurd! If we don’t want identified that way, why do we fly it there? Maybe we could put it in a case on the state house grounds? Or in the state house? But to fly it where it is–I wonder how many others wince every time they see it?
As one who travels around the US teaching law enforcement and others I am always being asked about the flag and it is embarassing. I have lived in the south all my life and I am always amazed at our ability to live in the past. It is time to get that thing off the state house grounds. It is representative of a lost and horrible cause, the right side of that conflict won.
I was born and raised in a segregated world here in SC. The Blacks stayed where they were told and the Whites seemd to be in charge of everything. Well, call it what you may want, Glenn McConnell, but this is racism, and it still permeates our society, through leaders like McConnell and others. Segregation is WRONG, both morally and scripturally. Therefore, I would very much like to see the flag-rag come down and put in the Museum. By the way, I am a White American who loves all people, even those who I don’t happen to agree with.
Certainly, a “new deal” will be proffered as a result of this groundswell. My hope is that the next compromise will swing a little further in the direction of common sense. The flag should not be in a place of ambiguous prominence…period. I hope that we, as a state, can make a collective step forward and distance ourselves from the national perception of “backwards southerners,” that is as real as we are willing to admit. Now, for those “Borat” idiots…
The Confederate flag should not fly on any public property where the American flag flies. These two flags represent sworn enemies on the battlefield. Logically, you cannot “Support the Troops” and support the Confederate flag. What about African-American soldiers and their families who have ancestors enslaved under the Confederate flag? It seems disrepectful and almost treason to me to fly the Confederate flag in the faces of those soldiers and their families.
What is the best way to put pressure on Glenn McConnell and the rest? YouTube videos of legislators? A Confederate flag MySpace page? A letter writing campaign to Google and all other companies in SC?
Those “Borat” kids said what they said in part because they see that flag flying at the Statehouse every day – that gives their racism tacit approval by our legislature.
It appears that Mayor Riley, by proposing this insidious monument that will legitimize the presence of the Confederate battle flag on State House grounds, wishes to put before the citizens of SC a fait accompli. Our demands that the flag no longer be flown are effectively held hostage to this absurd Southern heritage vs. racist symbol debate, which I pointed out in a letter to the editor published in today’s The State. It is my opinion that the flag debate represents the worst kind of cynical manipulation this state’s political “leaders” can orchestrate.
We are for South Carolina, Coaches Spurrier and Bowden and we are sure the vast majority of South Carolinians. Take that flag down now!
Let’s work together and take down the Confederate flag on the state grounds. South Carolina is frequently ranked last in the U.S on good ideas and frequently first on bad ideas. This is not a good idea. It is a great idea.The media should be on hand to witness the event. Let’s help “drag our state out of the 19th century, through the 20th and into the 21st.
Be careful when you go to take down that flag! You will most likely be confronted by a bunch of overweight, undereducated men who still like to play dress-up and run around with giant cap guns playing war. They will call each other “kunnel” and “cap’n” as if they really were part of some sort of army, and who will then congratulate one another on what a historic feat of arms they (pretended) to accomplish. Its best to just wait them out, as they will eventually tire of wearing a woolen uniform in the hot summer sun and slowly drift down the street to eat Barbeque at Bessingers, where they can not only enjoy a glass of sweet tea, but re-assure themselves of their inherent correctness by reading the propaganda( I mean “literature”) that PROVES that GOD himself desired us to OWN our fellow men.
Ahhh
Spring is here and now you can really smell the political correctness in the air. Little boys used to play marbles and most complained when they lost or compromised. Same principle here on a flag that stood for honor and was much maligned by ignorant race baiting people of both colours-The KKK and the NAACP.Has anyone forgotten that Blacks, Jews, Native American Indians, and Hispanics fought for the confederacy and under the battle flag? Why do we continue to debate the compromise. THE COMPROMISE STATES THIS FLAG BECOMES PART OF THE CONFEDERATE MONUMENT WHERE IT FLIES. This monument legislation also protects street names and other courthouse lawn/public square monuments from being removed.So there, take down the flag and you take down the soldier’s monuments,too! Might as well melt down Gen. Wade Hampton’s statue and horse,too. No one remembers him anyway, you know. I mean he sacrificed everything he had during and after the war. He brought stability to the state and lead the fight to end radical reconstruction.He ended the exploitation of Black citizens by Yankee carpetbaggers. Years later, the man died
penniless.So let’s have some dialogue on taking down the monuments. I’m sure all of you flag desecraters will be all for it.Hey while we’re at it, let’s go down the hill and remove the Vietnam veteran’s park wall.
After all , they lost a war, too! No little boy Brad Warthen lost at marbles and now wants ALL the marbles so he can go home!
Shane Edge: So do you always stereotype this much? I’d love to hear your biased description of the NAACP… from your SCV description alone, I bet it would mention watermelon and fried chicken.
I invite you to attend a meeting of the Sons of Confederate Veterans meeting at Seawells. The next meeting is this Thursday evening (April 19) at Seawells (the meal usually consists of two meat selections of which one is a carving station (rarely is there barbeque), a salad, two or three vegetables, rolls, and desert… and you are correct on the sweet tea (I didn’t realize that it was considered a negatively looked upon drink by the anti-flag crowd). Meeting and program starts at 6:00 and open to anyone with an interest. There is a business meeting, but the majority of the evening will be spent on the evening’s program which is usually historical in nature… this month’s topic is “Confederate Heavy Artillery and the Union Gunboats in Charleston during the war”. If you do attend, you will find state politicians, business (large and small) leaders, several lawyers, a doctor or two, maybe your neighbors, coworkers, friends, etc. As far as overweight members, I don’t think the percentage is anymore than any other group of this size… why that is a concern of yours is a little confusing to me. It’s not uncommon to see a black guest or member from another camp attend a General Wade Hampton SCV meeting.
So Shane, are you a dog that’s all bark and no bite??? Prove me wrong. We know that Brad Warthen won’t go for you… he’s too busy digging up things to complain about… like anyone listens after the first few minutes. Members from the state legislature have already proven that in today’s newspaper… that it wasn’t worth bringing up again and there were more important things to work on than the flag. There was a reporter from The State who attended at least one meeting a few years ago.
I wonder why so many are so emotional about having the Confederate flag flown at the state house in memory of the soldiers who fought and died in that war when on Geiger Street there is a cemetery where soldiers are buried and the only flags there are the small ones that have marked their graves for years.
Ruth
We get emotional because if the flag at the state house goes down, then the flags at the Geiger street cemetery will be next. It happened at cemeteries in Missouri; and also close to home in Charlotte, NC when a former city manager ordered all confederate flags removed from the cemetery downtown- a form of grave desecration.
Tour guides at Arlington National cemetery will not take you to the beautiful monument to the Confederate dead sculpted by Moses
Ezekiel( which depicts black confederate soldiers on it).The cemetery at the Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois where Confederate prisoners were held, died, and are buried will not allow battle flags on the graves, either.Give these PC people an inch… they will take a mile
How can anyone of Southern heritage want to remove the flag that our ancestors so bravely fought under during the war of Northern agression is beyond reason. The flag is at it’s rightful place let it be.
We’re going to fight you tooth and nail. The only reason you want the flag down is strictly for the basketball tournaments. You don’t give a damn about blacks or anyone else. As to “economic development”, I guess you won’t be satisfied until all of South Carolina looks like LA or Atlanta.
Take you corporations, your worship of athletics and your phony compassion for blacks and move elsewhere. We have our monument, they have their Slave monument on the other side. If you’re embarassed about our history, then take a good, long at your own.
What basketball tournaments?
Do you get the impression that Mr. Deese walked in in the middle of the conversation, and has no idea what’s been said?
both the monument and the flags need to go down. They both symbolize racism at its finest. The neo confederates are crazy. They lie to themselves about the history of the war. All of the land marks in the south about the war make it seem as though they won every battle so its amazing how they lost the war. I actually wouldn’t have a problem with the monuments if they had actually told the truth about the people they claim are great and said that they were racist and murders then it be ok. There is no pride in what the confederacy did. They fought to continue slavery plain and simple. All of that other southern pride is bullshit. Southern pride isn’t a reason to start a war money and racism is. They can have the pride they want at home just not in public domain. The south has way more ‘heritage’ then then racist leaders and kkk members how bout u honor one of those people?