The WashPost brings my attention to the above video, which was put out by Mother Jones (and of course, if it were just Mother Jones, I wouldn’t be paying as much attention — but the Post seems to regard it as legit, so…) From the Post report:
Bits and pieces of a private fundraiser held by Mitt Romney have been leaked to Mother Jones magazine, exposing some blunt talk from the Republican candidate on voters, his campaign and American society.
In one video, Romney argues that it’s not “my job” to win over the 47 percent of voters committed to President Obama, because they are “dependent on government” and he will “never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
What Romney says in the video will perhaps endear him to some of the base that have thus far been cold to him, because that’s exactly what they think of Obama voters.
But personally, I would have thought Mr. Romney had a somewhat more respectful, and open-minded, attitude toward this nearly half of the American electorate. It’s a bit disturbing to think that, if elected, he’d come into office holding 47 percent of Americans in contempt to this degree.
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And I agree with everything he said. There are those who feel that they are entitled to government checks. These are the same people that are nothing more than a liability to this country.
It’s the requisite brainwashing required by the Party.
You gotta love a man who tells it like it is. No sugar-coated, politically correct BS.
“It’s a bit disturbing to think that, if elected, he’d come into office holding 47 percent of Americans in contempt to this degree.”
Where is any evidence that Romney holds these 47 percent “in contempt”? Romney speaks the true facts. When has the truth become too politically correct to be breached within our democratic republic?
The PC phenomenon is now crippling the Obama administration, which has lied to 100 percent of the country since September 11th.
The attempted cover story of recent Islamist violence in Libya caused by a video, for instance, is falling apart as I write.
It turns out that Obama’s State Department apparently sent a gay ambassador to Libya. Would that help explain why Chris Stevens
was abducted from a “safe house”, not his embassy?
The president has not needed to attend his daily intelligence briefings half the time? The State Dept. did not need to take seriously advanced warnings of coming violence on September 11th?
Is the 4th estate going to breach the truth to the public before November 6th? Not on your life!
How many more lies will be told to the whole country to protect poor judgements designed to court or at least not to offend each PC constituency of the Dems?
I did not hear one bit of contempt in his voice. Unfortunately for Mitt, he speaks the truth and it is looking more and more like Americans would rather welcome in the nanny state than take personal responsibility. I am not thrilled with Mitt, but I really cannot understand what folks have seen in Obama to warrant another term. Brad, I am curious as to your opinion on something. The race has seemed to shift recently in a major way towards Obama; based on your history of covering campaigns, do you believe this is over or does Romney still have a shot?
I don’t understand why this is even news.
Does anyone in their right mind think that the opposite side doesn’t feel the same way?
Didn’t President Obama make the statement of “clinging to their guns and religion” in the 2008 campaign? That wasn’t a “let’s just love each other” feeling.
Romney believes almost 50% of the voters in the country wouldn’t vote for him under any circumstance.
I am sure Obama believes that 44% of the voters won’t vote for him either.
That seems rather clear.
I mean I know it’s a “leaked” video and that gets us all tingling inside but water is wet and that’s not new news.
What’s different? He’ll say anything that he perceives his audience or supporters want to hear.
He’s fill of Mitt!
http://www.americablog.com/2012/09/video-full-of-mitt-parody.html
Brad,
And how does this differ much from the “clinging to guns and religion” remarks Obama made in the 2008 campaign in Pennsylvania.
Both spoke the unvarnished truth about how the opposing side views the other.
Personally, I find both men’s comments repugnant and insulting to the voters. And no, one is not a greater insult than the other, both disrespected Americans at the base level and that is not acceptable for any candidate or sitting president.
“But personally, I would have thought Mr. Romney had a somewhat more respectful, and open-minded, attitude toward this nearly half of the American electorate. It’s a bit disturbing to think that, if elected, he’d come into office holding 47 percent of Americans in contempt to this degree”
Really? I’m not surprised by this at all.
But Brad isn’t that the story of today’s politics? “Think like me, or you are of no consequence.”
As a purely non-partisan observation, I think that both sides are completely like that. That’s why we have such gridlock.
I would have thought Mr. Romney had a somewhat more respectful, and open-minded, attitude toward this nearly half of the American electorate. It’s a bit disturbing to think that, if elected, he’d come into office holding 47 percent of Americans in contempt to this degree.
-Brad
Really??? Have you been paying attention? Seriously? Where have you been? This man has shown zero respect for people of modest means. None. Zip. Nada. He is an elitist of the highest order. These comments, though disturbing, are really not far removed from the many public comments he’s made on the stump. His whole life is built on the concept that his class is the one that’s worthy and those that are in need deserve their plight. He doesn’t give a damn about anyone who makes less than a couple million a year let alone $40-50k. What is most shocking about this whole episode is how the media acts all surprised at these comments.
Mitt Romney is nothing but an elitist, draft dodging, dancing horse owner with not one ounce of compassion for his fellow man or even his dog. He’s a shameful disgrace of a human being that has no damn business getting anywhere close to the White House. Frankly I’m a bit ashamed as an American to have this creepy bastard representing one of the two major parties in our political system.
The election will be close but in the end just enough Americans will deny this creep the opportunity to become our leader. If only the MSM will do their job. We can only hope.
News Flash! “In what his campaign described today as a bold strategy to insure victory in the Presidential contest, Republican nominee Mitt Romney will undergo a procedure to have his mouth wired shut until Tuesday, November 6th.” via Andy Borowitz
@Bart: not so fast, my friend, with the equivalence of the famous Obama “guns and religion” comment. As you can easily hear, while one could say Obama was over-generalizing or even a tad condescending, his comments were about working-class Pennsylvanians whose jobs had vanished, been gone for “25 years or more” as he said, and he specifically told these fundraisers that he would NOT write off that constituency, but would speak to their concerns and try at least to garner their support. In other words, he “wrote off” neither their financial plight nor their votes.
Romney, on the other hand, truly believes that 47% of Americans do not take personal responsibility for their own lives. He is so blindly worshipful of a system that enabled him to make billions that he literally cannot conceive of the single mother, working two minimum-wage jobs, trying to keep her kids in school, a roof over their heads, cope with health issues, taking every damn bit of personal responsibility for her life and those of her children (and that’s just one of millions of Americans out there, you name the scenario).
Nothing really surprising in this video. GOP philosophy: if you are struggling financially, you are morally less worthy than someone making more money. Moral worth is equivalent to net worth(maybe we should translate that to Latin and replace E Pluribus Unum as our national motto).
The only thing really remarkable about the video is the ease and casualness with which Romney speaks to his natural constituency, an ease that you don’t see from him in other contexts.
Sorry to post twice in a row so quickly, but this also seems obvious from the video:
I think we can finally settle on the REAL definition of “class warfare” after seeing this video.
Folks, Brad is like the rest of the mainstream media… he’s already got his finger ready to push the Obama (or likely straight party Democrat) button in the voting booth. He feels it’s his job to convince the rest of us to do the same.
@bud – “This man has shown zero respect for people of modest means.”
And Obama does??? The man is a pompus as John Kerry. If you didn’t have the means to contribute to his election or if he knew you weren’t going to vote for him he wouldn’t give you the time of day.
@bud – “Mitt Romney is nothing but an elitist, draft dodging, dancing horse owner with not one ounce of compassion for his fellow man or even his dog. He’s a shameful disgrace of a human being that has no damn business getting anywhere close to the White House. Frankly I’m a bit ashamed as an American to have this creepy bastard representing one of the two major parties in our political system. ”
Now you know how we feel about Obama.
In the meantime, Obama and Bernanke have the money printing presses working overtime. When this is all over, people will be using money to start fires and as toilet paper.
What if those 47% who do not pay taxes paid a minimum of $100 per year just to say they’re helping pull their share?
How much money are we talking about if half the country handed over $100 to the government?
@Phillip – “that he literally cannot conceive of the single mother, working two minimum-wage jobs, trying to keep her kids in school, a roof over their heads, cope with health issues, taking every damn bit of personal responsibility for her life and those of her children (and that’s just one of millions of Americans out there, you name the scenario). ”
So she’s working two jobs and still not paying taxes? As for the rest of it, it sounds like she’s living the life that 99% of the rest of us live. It’s not just the poor and working poor that deal with these daily issues. But it makes for good drama when you put it the way you did.
Phillip, as usual, is correct, there is no equivalency between Obama’s 2008 comments and Romney’s tirade against the “47%”. Obama could have chosen his words more carefully and perhaps he was condescending but he certainly doesn’t believe people of modest means are inferior. Afterall Obama came from a rather modest, if not impoverished, home and he understands the struggles of working people. He understands what it’s like to have student debt to deal with and mortgages to pay.
Romney on the other hand was born with a silver foot in his mouth. He went to an elite prep school where he demonstrated his contempt for people who are different by leading a band of thugs in an inexcusable hazing incident. That “youthful indescretion” can be excuses as most young folks have their moments that lead to bad choices. But it demonstrates his mindset that he is of superior stock.
As he grew older Mitt decided he would be in favor of the war in Vietnam. But not for himself. So with the help of his dad he dodged the draft by performing “dangerous” missionary work in the “jungles” of France. Must have been tough having to watch black and white TV and endure the hardships of a house without a car elevator. But Mitt endured.
Then he got married and fathered 5 sons, a convenient way to finish off his draft deferement time and run out the clock on a war he so fervently supported. And what did his life experiences teach him about compassion? That it’s ok to torture a helpless dog by strapping him onto the roof of a car for 12 hours.
After sending jobs to China for more than a decade at Bane Capital Romney was ready for politics. After a humiliating loss to Ted Kennedy Mitt persevered and defeated his Democratic opponent for Governor. His one big accomplishment as governor was healthcare reform. Since then he’s spent his career running from that because it doesn’t fit his anti-47% personna. Good ole Mitt. You can always count on him to come back to his elitist roots.
“Then he got married and fathered 5 sons, a convenient way to finish off his draft deferement time and run out the clock on a war he so fervently supported. ”
That may be one of the dumbest statements I’ve read in a long time.
Bud – do you ever realize that your level of hyperbole effectively negates pretty much every argument you attempt to make?
You stitch together selected fragments and try to present it as a narrative.
Doug – If I’ve learned one thing, if one makes more than $15,000 per year Bud is going to hate you and everything you stand for.
But then he likes to think of Ted Kennedy as a national war hero.
Doug thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t realize Mitt Romney had served in Vietnam.
Perhaps Mitt’s primary motivation for getting married and having children wasn’t to avoid military service but it certainly did work to do so. What makes me so furious with folks like Mitt Romney is how convenient it is to lead a fairly normal life that translates into a lack of personal responsibility for a cause they so stridently endorse. Mitt could have rearranged his life to serve in the military as John Kerry did. He could have voluntered to go as John McCain did. Or he could have taken the easy way out and simply lived his life as though there was no war. How can anyone respect, let alone support such a hypocrit?
I got to thinking over lunch. I just returned from a short vacation back to my hometown in the midwest. If you think about it, it was like traveling back in time. The work ethic is strong, people have the mentality of “if you don’t work, you don’t eat”, those who are on government subsidies are either unable to work or elderly. Government subsidies for able-bodied men and women are looked upon as an embarrassment to the family.
I wonder what would happen if one day government subsidies were cut in half or eliminated. I’m willing to bet that there’d be a lot of “disabled” people finding out that they aren’t as disabled as they want the government to believe.
I know people who are “disabled” and receiving disability checks, yet they are well enough to golf on a regular basis, do their own lawn maintenance, stand and sit for long periods of time, etc… but are “unable to work because of my disability”. Makes you feel for the people who are truly disabled and want to work but are physically unable. That’s why it doesn’t bother me to call people “leeches” much to the dismay of Kathrine.
It’s hard not to breathe the air when one is in the bubble – any bubble.
SD II, I’m going to actually agree (at least partially) with your last comments. There probably are a good many people who receive benefits from the government that don’t deserve them. There are also folks who probably could use a handout that would benefit temporarily while they get their life in order. There is no perfect system. I would maintain that BY FAR the biggest beneficiary of government largesse are huge companies who essentially furnish unneeded goods and/or services to the government. That would include military contractors, farm subsidies, oil companies, big pharma, big insurance and a host of other giant companies who suckle at the government teet that we 53 percenters work so hard to provide.
Plenty of rich people pay no tax.
@Kathryn
What are the circumstances where a rich person doesn’t pay any tax?
Got any examples of how it works? Or is it just in certain years when losses exceed income – which would be a valid reason not to incur taxes.
The last two grafs of that Brooks column:
“Sure, there are some government programs that cultivate patterns of dependency in some people. I’d put federal disability payments and unemployment insurance in this category. But, as a description of America today, Romney’s comment is a country-club fantasy. It’s what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney.
“Personally, I think he’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not — some sort of cartoonish government-hater. But it scarcely matters. He’s running a depressingly inept presidential campaign. Mr. Romney, your entitlement reform ideas are essential, but when will the incompetence stop?”
is it just in certain years when losses exceed income – which would be a valid reason not to incur taxes.
-Doug
Really. Don’t these people still benefit from roads, the military, the courts, meat inspectors, etc.? I’d suggest the super wealthy with a high net worth but no or low taxable income are the real freeloaders in America.
“Personally, I think he’s a kind, decent man who says stupid things because he is pretending to be something he is not — some sort of cartoonish government-hater.
-D Brooks
There is no way to know if this is the true motovating force behind Mitt Romney. Maybe he really is a decent man behaving as a selfish plutocrat in order to get elected. What is in ones heart is impossible to know. But the actions and words of Mitt Romney are completely unambiguous. He just does not offer any reason for folks of modest incomes and/or genuine hardships (including injured war vets) to vote for him. Perhaps once in the White House he would act more compassionately than his stump persona indicates. Then again maybe he wouldn’t.
Brad, Who let the clowns out?
Mitt sez..”My father did not want me serving, and he convinced me that yes, I was too important to go to Vietnam.”
June 7,2012..at a press event in California before the GOP primary in that state, former Gov. Mitt Romney was asked about his support of United States military involvement overseas. He was pleased to answer the question, however after his response, his answer to a follow-up question regarding his four deferments from the Vietnam War did not please onlookers, especially veterans.
Romney responded to the question regarding US military involvement by stating, “We are the most powerful nation in the world, and it is our responsibility to make sure we protect all of our interests both here and abroad. This helps protect each and every freedom that has been fought for and won over the centuries of our nation’s existence. We will do what we have to in regard to strengthening our allied relationships, as well as letting our enemies know we do not intend to back down. We will stay the course of freedom at all costs. That is what our founders would have wanted.”
This very rehearsed answer to a scripted question was followed by a question that the former governor was not prepared to answer, or so it seemed by his response.
The next question asked went as follows, “Governor Romney, it is true, is it not that you had four deferments from the Vietnam War… You have said before that you support war and the efforts of US military involvement overseas at all costs, yet you made sure you would never go to war yourself. What makes you think that veterans and those currently serving in the military think that you have their best interests at heart when you yourself weren’t even interested in sacrificing your time, energy, or life for your nation at a time when it seemed most crucial?”
Romney responded:
“That’s a good question, young man, and I would be happy to answer it. The Vietnam War came at a time in my life when I had other plans. I knew in my heart of hearts that I would one day serve my nation. That I would one day hold an office that would help not only our nation, but also the world. So I did what I could to make sure that I would be around to serve my nation, as well as serving God by teaching very important religious principles to a broader audience overseas. My father did not want me serving, and he convinced me that yes, I was too important to go to Vietnam. I had a greater purpose in life. I wasn’t neglecting my nation, but rather preparing myself for a future of service.”
An onlooker that seemingly was a Vietnam veteran shouted, “Fuck you, Romney! You wouldn’t know service if it bit you on your well manicured ass.” To which Romney responded, “Please don’t be testy, my friend. I did what I did for you, and I thank you for your service as well.” That same veteran responded, “You only served yourself, you jackass. You could’ve served your nation even if your draft number wasn’t called… but you didn’t… you chose to serve yourself instead. Thanks for revealing your true colors.”
That far-left looney David Brooks weighs in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/opinion/brooks-thurston-howell-romney.html
Explaining the moochers in a pie chart:
http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/
Where did you find that, J?
Good find J. Makes me hold the man in even more contempt than I already had.
@bud – “What makes me so furious with folks like Mitt Romney is how convenient it is to lead a fairly normal life that translates into a lack of personal responsibility for a cause they so stridently endorse.”
What about the leeches who feed off the government and don’t give anything back… do they make you furious? At least Romney held a job, created jobs, and paid taxes… which is more than others can say.
Plenty of rich people who don’t pay taxes also go to jail for not paying taxes. Are all these non-taxpaying rich people Republicans?
@bud – “Really. Don’t these people still benefit from roads, the military, the courts, meat inspectors, etc.?”
Sure, same as the 47% of the voters who don’t pay any taxes and vote for Obama.
I sure hope that J’s quotations weren’t from a reputable, verifiable news source.
That would be a end gamer.
My father did not want me serving, and he convinced me that yes, I was too important to go to Vietnam.
-Mitt
I’ve read this 3 times now and still cannot believe anyone, even Mitt Romney actually said that in a public forum. J is there some possibility that this is somehow a misquote. I’m no fan of Mitt Romney (obviously) but this is far more stunning than the 47% comments.
That’s why I asked J for a source. It sort of reads like an email hoax.
Sorry, J, but the rumor-busters at Snopes.com report that that account is completely FALSE. Romney never said he was too important to go to Vietnam.
It comes from a satirical publication called the Free Wood Post.
The reason why you might not have recognized it as satire is that, from what I can tell perusing it for a few minutes just now, the Free Wood Post is not at all funny.
It seems to be trying to be the Onion, and failing miserably at it.
… It originally appeared on Free Wood Post, a website that touts in its banner, “News That’s
Almost Reliable”. In fact, there is a “Satire Disclaimer” at the website where Sarah Wood, author of the original piece makes it clear that everything on the site is fake.
And to think liberals consider conservatives dumb and gullible enough to believe anything as ridiculous as this that would be printed about Obama.
If for one moment you actually believe that if Romney had made such a statement and survived to win the nomination, you need to take a reality check and soon.
You have been punk’d big time. Now, how credible do you think your future “news flashes” will be?
This was very revealing. First, j actually believed the fake story and immediately, bud swallowed it hook, line, and sinker until even he started to have doubts.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Damn, Brad, you beat me to it. Was just about to post it came the Free Woods site. And yes, it is pretty bad satire.
There’s a lot of that going around, apparently.
I just listened to a song by Randy Newman, in which he sings that he’s dreaming of a white president. It seemed to have such possibilities, but was AWFUL.
I posted it, if only to share my disappointment.
I’d like to read somewhere that the Randy Newman song was ALSO a hoax.
I had to go spend a few minutes at the Onion to remind myself that humor is still possible in this world…
The Onion, which reports today that “Romney Just Saying He Grew Up Poor In Memphis Now“…
Continuing with today’s headlines:
“Number Of Users Who Actually Enjoy Facebook Down To 4”
“Obama: ‘Help Us Destroy Jesus And Start A New Age Of Liberal Darkness’”
See, now THAT’S satire. Although it’s better when they work “area man” into the headline…
is anyone who posts “ROTFLMAO!!!” ever really, you know, “ROTFLMAO!!!”?
Well… not at the same time he’s typing it, I suppose.
Although maybe you could do it with an iPad.
… This is the disclaimer from FWP that is interesting just like Andy B’s satirical observations.
“Free Wood Post is a news and political satire web publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within FreeWoodPost.com are fiction, and presumably fake news.
Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.
FreeWoodPost.com is intended for a mature, sophisticated, and discerning audience.
Has anyone ever really ROTFLMAO’d? That’s like someone actually slapping their knee at a joke.
Well, actually after reading the “news flash” and finding out it was a hoax, I literally was “ROTFLMAO”. Got up long enough to post the comment and then resumed “ROTFLMAO”.
Sense of humor Tim?
By the way, if you’d like to watch the entire video of that Romney fund-raiser, it’s now available at the Mother Jones site.
SD II, if as much as you read and post on this blog, you somehow believe that Brad would ever “push the….straight party democrat… button”, then why should anyone ever accept your judgement on anything at all?
I still don’t get it.
Romeny believes almost 50 percent won’t vote for him- and we have millions of Americans that seem to enjoy being dependent on the government.
Water is wet.
Columbia is hot in the summer.
More than 80 percent of the 47 percent, BTW, are made up of people who either work for a living or are elderly. And everybody pays payroll tax and sales taxes.
A small percentage are those wounded veterans who leech off real Americans by accepting care from VA hospitals. A president who runs government like a business will either turn those VA hospitals into profit centers or farm them out overseas.
We’ve had this discussion before. It’s not “47% don’t pay any taxes.” It’s “47% don’t pay federal income tax.” Take the time to look at Burl’s link. Most Social Security recipients don’t pay federal income taxes. The working poor still pay payroll taxes and sales taxes and any number of other fees and taxes. The tax code can be changed so these “victims” will have to pay federal income taxes–just drop deductions like dependents, charitable donations, tuition credits and mortgage interest. Everybody’s taxes will increase. I don’t think the poor hoard cash.
Anyone who thinks that 47% of the people in this country don’t take responsibility for their lives hasn’t bothered to think at all.
Isn’t it typical that our resident [Republicans] were the first to jump on this comment, as though being quick off the mark to parrot the party line were some kind of virtue?
Now that I’ve had a few hours to digest the 47% comment it now seems apparent that this will have little appreciable impact on the election. It may be more than a 2 day news cycle event but at the end of the day it will merely confirm what most people thought about Romney anyway. His base will get all excited that he’s finally starting to fight. Obama’s base will likewise get fired up for a while, perhaps energizing some folks to go the extra mile to get a proper voter ID in places like PA and OH. Otherwise the tiny handful of undecided voters will wait on a few more jobs numbers to decide.
The next BLS labor report will likely decide the election. A gain of 150k jobs or more and Obama is a lock. Any negative number could swing the vote to Romney. Between 0 and 150k will likely leave the dynamics unchanged which right now favors the president.
I’m sort of amused that the states which are net recipients of federal tax dollars are here in the south – and oh yeah – Utah (among other “red” states).
It’s not that I disagree with the statement that every adult should pay federal income taxes, but this is one of those instances where the facts seem inconvenient and the political communication atrocious.
It isn’t that Romney said he understood many voters would not support him; it is that he, as prospective national leader, was baldly writing them off – and a solid chunk of his own base as well. Politically deft does not describe Romney the candidate.
Obama on Letterman last night
“There aren’t a lot of people out there that belive they are entitled to something”
What alternate universe does President Obama live in? It’s not this one.
“More than 80 percent of the 47 percent, BTW, are made up of people who either work for a living or are elderly. And everybody pays payroll tax and sales taxes.”
I pay payroll taxes, sales taxes, and income taxes.
There are approx 22 million people in the United States that are unemployed (that’s people that are still looking for work, and those that have given up)
“Isn’t it typical that our resident [Republicans] were the first to jump on this comment, as though being quick off the mark to parrot the party line were some kind of virtue?”
I’m not a “republican”
I simply have no issue with what Romney said. His numbers are wrong- but they aren’t terribly wrong and I agree with the sentiment.
I walk into construction places of business every single day in South Carolina and I talk to business owners and office managers who have to pull teeth to get people to come to work on time, cross their fingers that their employees will pass their drug tests, and hear them talk about the incredible lack of work ethic that they see on a routine basis.
“Sense of humor Tim?”
That’s pretty funny. LOL.
But Barry… the “sentiment” is PRECISELY what he got so horribly wrong. Quibble over the numbers all day — I’ll leave that to Bud and Doug; they LIKE numbers — that’s not what was inexcusable in what he said.
Set aside the fact that it is so OBVIOUSLY true that he is confusing the roughly 47 percent who don’t pay federal income tax with the roughly 47 percent who receive entitlement benefits and the roughly 47 percent who will vote for Obama — three very different groups that overlap in some areas and not in others — that’s not the problem.
The problem is that, after falsely saying those groups were one and the same, he utterly condemned and dismissed that half of the American people as completely useless and hopeless, saying he could “never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives,” and that it wasn’t his “job” even to try.
It was a declaration, not only that he was not running to serve that half of the electorate, but that he had utter contempt for that half of the electorate, seeing them as undeserving of a moment’s consideration.
That was what was outrageous — the “sentiment.”
” A gain of 150k jobs or more and Obama is a lock. Any negative number could swing the vote to Romney. Between 0 and 150k will likely leave the dynamics unchanged which right now favors the president.”
I’d like to know where bud comes up with these numbers?
I found this interesting. From CNNMoney:
“The Tax Policy Center estimates that 4,000 households with incomes over $1 million ended up with zero federal income tax liability in 2011. Another 14,000 made between $500,000 and $1 million.”
“The problem is that, after falsely saying those groups were one and the same, he utterly condemned and dismissed that half of the American people as completely useless and hopeless, saying he could “never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives,” and that it wasn’t his “job” even to try.”
Where’s the problem? What he said is true, you just don’t want to believe it.
“It was a declaration, not only that he was not running to serve that half of the electorat”
Have you ever tried to lead a group of people where half of them refuse to work with you and there’s nothing you can do? Same thing here. You move on to those who will work with you.
I walk into construction places of business every single day in South Carolina and I talk to business owners and office managers who have to pull teeth to get people to come to work on time, cross their fingers that their employees will pass their drug tests, and hear them talk about the incredible lack of work ethic that they see on a routine basis.
-Barry
First of all anecdotal comments like this carry zero weight with me. Anyone can say they observed this or that and they somehow feel this is a legitimate argument. Well it’s not, so let’s move on.
Second, even if there are all these lazy, drug abusing nere-do-wells out there it doesn’t say anything about the way the president has handled the economic situation. Far from it. These people may be lazy simply because the find their situation so hopeless seeing a tiny handful of super rich people taking all the money for themselves regardless of how hard they work. Give people some hope and maybe, just maybe they’ll seize the opportunity to put in a bit more effort. If we go down the path Mitt Romney wants us to go this sense of dispair will only grow worse, much worse.
I see you point but I don’t take it that way.
he was speaking to his diehard supporters – people forking over a lot of money.
Politicians talk to the true believers a lot different than they do regular voters.
I think he was being honest- and that he was correct – he’s not going to convince about 47% of the voters to vote for him. That’s true give or take a few percentage points.
That’s 100% correct – and every pollster out there shows that to be correct.
I also agree it’s not his job to get anyone to take personal responsibility. A president can’t do that.
Those that try to do that or wasting their time. It’s not their job.
Barry, it’s one thing to say that 47 percent of the electorate is going to vote for the other guy, and you can’t change their minds. (Although frankly, I certainly wouldn’t donate money to the campaign of a guy with that sort of defeatist attitude.)
But he was saying that same 47 percent was useless, shiftless, lazy and unwilling to do anything to help themselves. Which is completely insupportable. And to the extent that statistics mean anything (some here place more faith in them than I do), demonstrably and objectively untrue.
Why do I say that it’s “objectively untrue”? Because it’s based on the assumption that the 47 percent don’t work and never have and never will, which is wildly untrue. As Bud noted, maybe a fifth of that 47 percent (less than 10 percent of the whole) are neither retired nor currently working. And then there are people in that group who are actually disabled and can’t work — or do you deny that it’s possible for anyone to be in that situation? — or unable to find work yet. Some are wounded veterans.
So if you stretch the point, you might be able to say that, at the extreme outside, 5 percent of Americans are shiftless parasites. But he said 47 percent were. He applied it to half of America.
See the problem?
@bud – “I found this interesting. From CNNMoney:”
Do you know all the details? I could be a billionaire who doesn’t need an income, yet I earn a million dollars in interest a year. If I donate a million dollars to charity that fiscal year, I have zero tax liability.
In bud’s mind I’d be a horrible person because I didn’t pay taxes.
@bud – “These people may be lazy simply because the find their situation so hopeless seeing a tiny handful of super rich people taking all the money for themselves regardless of how hard they work.”
So sitting around complaining about it is a better solution? How about working for yourself if you have a skill set?
How many businesses out there owned by the “super rich” don’t pay their employees? bud just likes to use excuses rather than make any effort to have people try and better themselves… that’s what we get for decades of giving handouts.
Actually, that’s not what Bud said. He’s pointing out that thousands of the nonpayers are millionaires like Romney.
Just as millions of likely Romney voters are not currently employed. Just as millions of likely Romney voters are recipients of some sort of federal entitlement.
This Tea Party fantasy that the country is neatly divided into “makers” and “takers” is an utter absurdity, and any thinking person who has entertained it should be embarrassed.
“So if you stretch the point, you might be able to say that, at the extreme outside, 5 percent of Americans are shiftless parasites. But he said 47 percent were. He applied it to half of America.'”
I wouldn’t be surprised to see if the actual number was closer to 47% than 5%.
No, Steven, YOU wouldn’t be surprised, because that’s what you believe — even though there are no facts to support that belief, even though all the available facts indicate you are way, way off.
And that’s the whole problem with the Tea Party worldview. Lots of people believing things as Gospel that simply are not true.
And Barry — where Steve Gordy’s comment said “[Republican],” in brackets, that’s my edited version of what he said. I had changed the way he characterized the people he was arguing with, in keeping with my civility policy. Sorry I didn’t make note of it at the time. I was approving comments on the fly on my phone, and didn’t have time to write a note explaining that the comment was edited.
My iPhone WordPress app makes it very easy to approve, and even to quickly edit, comments that are awaiting approval. I have to go over to Safari to write a new comment, and that’s a lot more cumbersome on the phone.
Like Father like Son! NOT!
According to Mitt’s mother, George Romney was “a refugee from Mexico on welfare relief for the first year of his life.”
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/09/19/1962-video-lenore-romney-george-romney-was-a-refugee-from-mexico-on-welfare-relief-for-the-first-year-of-his-life/
BTW, among those lazy, shiftless Americans who accepted government aid when times were tough was George Romney.
So now I’m a Tea Party member?
If you had to throw a number out there, of people who are “shiftless parasites” on the government… where would that number land? Take a look at Columbia alone where it’s worse than most places I’ve been… I bet the number is at least 20%. What’s your guess? You can factor in unemployment numbers, EBT user numbers, Section 8 housing numbers, high school drop out numbers, anything you like.
BTW – I’ll be okay if you call me a Tea Party Member as long as you’re okay with me calling you a Party Line Voting Democrat. Their motto, “In and out in 3 seconds”.
Is anybody else besides me nearly as disturbed by his comments about Israelis/Palestinians (pretty much writing off any effort in that regard) as the 47% business?
“First of all anecdotal comments like this carry zero weight with me. Anyone can say they observed this or that and they somehow feel this is a legitimate argument. Well it’s not, so let’s move on.”
I wasn’t trying to convince you. Nothing would convince you.
I simply stated what I observe myself- and it happened again today at a small electrical contractor in Lexington, SC.
“This Tea Party fantasy that the country is neatly divided into “makers” and “takers” is an utter absurdity, and any thinking person who has entertained it should be embarrassed.”
It’s not “neatly” divided. But there is a division there.
Anyone denying that would deny that Columbia is hot in the summer.
“it doesn’t say anything about the way the president has handled the economic situation”
Almost 50 million Americans are on Food Stamps even with that incredible number CNN Money says that about 1 in 4 that are eligible aren’t enrolled
around 22 million Americans are unemployed (that includes folks actively seeking jobs, and those not seeking jobs anymore)
This link (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/10-questions-blog-commenters-should-but-dont-ask/) is a good one for anyone who wants to post on any blog.
Here’s why so many people are out of work. First we had the disasterous housing market/fincancial collapse that occurred in 2007-2008. That led to a recession whose effects continue to linger. TARP, the car company bailout and the stimulus helped stop the hemorage of jobs and have resulted in 29 straight months of job growth.
Second, the GOP has presented a united front in thwarting any and all efforts by the president and democrats in congress from providing further stimulus to the economy.
Third, state and local governments are shedding jobs at a time when much work on infrastructure is desparately needed. Yet because the effects of number 2 there isn’t enough local/state money and no relief is forthcoming from congress.
Fourth, the rich in this country are sitting on trillions of dollars of cash rather than spending it on expanding plants. Why? Not enough demand as a result of 1, 2 and 3.
The solution is simple, the federal government needs to spend more money to stimulate the economy and to help state and local governments hire more badly needed workers. They pay for this by taxing the rich who will in turn have an incentive to spend money on their businesses rather than sitting on it drawing interest.
If Romney wins we’ll have more of 1, 2, 3 and 4. His budget and Ryan’s blueprint follow along the lines of the failed austerity measures currently in effect in the UK. We’re sure to have a double-dip recession. If Obama wins there is at least some hope to turn the situation around. At worst we’ll continue to grow slowly. Better to take half a loaf rather than none. Then again with Romney we may end up with a s*** loaf.
OK, it was starting to get personal there between Doug and J, so when the latest rejoinder from J came in, I went back and gathered up the whole conversation and shoved it down the memory hole.
So it never existed. Thus spake Big Brother.
Oh, and Steven, two points:
1. I didn’t say you had anything to do with the Tea Party. I said that’s what the Tea Party believes.
2. No, you don’t get to call me a straight-ticket Democrat, or a straight-ticket Republican, or even (if such a thing existed), straight-ticket UnParty. In fact, it is my firm belief, oft stated, that anyone who pulls the party lever should lose his right to vote.
It is an abomination that that feature is even available on our ballots. It utterly disgusts me.
@Barry – 50 million and rising. Now that you can use EBT cards damn near everywhere it’s getting to be more noticeable. Not only can you use them at grocery stores, I’ve seen people buying gas with them, cigarettes with them, junk food and alcohol. Some of these items aren’t what it’s for, but all the clerk has to do is ring that 40 oz. beer as a fountain drink, you swipe your EBT card and out the door you go. This whole EBT card is way past being out of control. They need to go back to the paper fake money they used to use, you need change for your grocery purchase, you don’t get US dollars back, you get the monopoly money back… and it should be an embarrassment to be seen using it.
And Steve G. — That’s a good list, but I don’t think anyone I know would always pass the test, myself included.
We can look on the bright side and hope that Romney was simply pandering to his audience and actually has no real ethical scruples or political ability.
Oh, among those shiftless Americans paying no income tax are troops in combat.
@bud – Why should businesses invest their money into capitol investments? Nobody is buying anything. What you’re wanting is exactly what’s sitting at the corner of S. Main and Blossom… empty buildings.
“The solution is simple, the federal government needs to spend more money to stimulate the economy and to help state and local governments hire more badly needed workers”
Let’s use Obama’s approach of just having the government buy up more and more bad assets to try and stimulate the economy. How are they paying for this… with the printing presses working overtime making the dollar more and more worthless. Before this all ends, we’re going to see inflation like we haven’t seen since the 1970’s.
@Burl – “Oh, among those shiftless Americans paying no income tax are troops in combat.”
What percentage of Americans are currently in combat…. 0.25%. Okay explain the other 46.75% who aren’t in combat locations.
Phillip, count me among those disturbed by Romney’s ME comments. However, I have to say I was MORE concerned (but for sure not surprised) by the 47% remarks. Why? The ME is incredibly difficult and although it shows a bit of intellectual laziness to just “kick the ball down the field” it’s pretty much unspoken American policy (with a few exceptions) since Jimmy Carter. Not sure Obama has done much more than “kick the ball down the field”.
The more that comes out of Romney’s mouth the more support and respect I have for him.
Let’s use Obama’s approach of just having the government buy up more and more bad assets to try and stimulate the economy.
– SDII
That’s a comment misconception repeated over and over and over by conservatives. Obama is a piker compared to Reagan when it comes to government spending. Indeed Reagan was quite the Keynsian.
@bud – The Federal Reserve’s new economic stimulus plan involves printing vast sums of money to help people buy homes, but over the next year the program could do more to boost the economy by lifting stock prices.
The Fed said last week it would buy $40 billion every month in mortgage backed securities until the labor market improves substantially.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/16/us-usa-fed-economy-idUSBRE88F05A20120916
“The solution is simple, the federal government needs to spend more money to stimulate the economy and to help state and local governments hire more badly needed workers. They pay for this by taxing the rich who will in turn have an incentive to spend money on their businesses rather than sitting on it drawing interest.”
A few problems with that
1) A lot of states will not take the money.
2) State governments do a pretty crappy job of that type of economic development. They have a bad habit of moving that money around, and not using it in the best ways (see Brad’s harvey Peeler post for one example).
3) State and local governments hiring a few people- only to have to lay them off in a few years when that money is gone isn’t a good idea.
Well duh, SD2. Troops serving in combat are a small percentage of the population. But Romney dissed 100 percent of those troops.
We’re not the only ones with state budget problems.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-09-20/1-dot-6-billion-nd-budget-surplus-continues-to-zoom
@ SD2
“Have you ever tried to lead a group of people where half of them refuse to work with you and there’s nothing you can do? Same thing here. You move on to those who will work with you.”
Yep, good thing you aren’t a school teacher. There’s rarely nothing you can do. You don’t move on. You change your methods until you find what works to reach the ones you haven’t yet reached.
At least you don’t move on in a public school where you are obligated to teach any and all learners that walk in the door. I guess private schools have the luxury of turning away those that aren’t as easy to teach.
Perhaps that is the difference here, too. Romney is Mr. private sector where you can tailor your business to serve the portion of the market that you choose. Being President doesn’t work that way. You are Everybody’s President.
@Burl – Yet most of those 100% will vote for him. Ironic, huh???
@Scout – So being President of the US is like being a school teacher? I guess social promotion works in both instances.
@Burl – “In regards to determining taxable income, members of the military should remember that any income earned for services performed while in a combat zone is considered to be combat pay and is therefore not taxable and is not considered earned income. Combat pay is reported in Box 12 (code “Q”) of Form W-2, Wage and Tax Statement (not Box 1). If you serve in a combat zone for any part of one or more days during a particular month, you are entitled to an exclusion of income for that entire month.”
So… if the money isn’t considered income, why would those earning it pay income tax on it? Kind of puts a dent in your argument.
They are still not paying income tax, SD II. Babies also don’t pay income tax.
@Kathryn – They’re not paying income tax on that income because there are federal laws stating that that is not taxable income. Did you skip that day in law school?
Babies are leeches… if they don’t get their way they start whining and expect everything to be given to them. Most outgrow this problem… the rest become Democrats.
So you’re saying that taking advantage of legal exemptions is not the same as not paying income tax? So Mittens was saying that 47% of Americans are tax cheats?
Apparently Brad didn’t like my response so I’m not going to bother retyping it.
@Kathryn – “Mittens”… really?