Within minutes of each other, I got this laudatory release from the Christian Coalition…
Washington D.C. — Christian Coalition of America blogger, Jim Backlin, comments about Senator John McCain’s "America is a Christian nation" remarks:
In a Christian Coalition of America blog entry entitled: "McCain’s ‘America is a Christian Nation’ Comments Might Make Him President," Jim Backlin said: “Comments like ‘America was founded on Christian principles’ by Senator John McCain just might make him president. In an interview last Saturday with a Christian-oriented webset called Beliefnet, Senator McCain stated that "I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, personally, I would prefer someone who has a grounding in my faith." The fact that the left-wing Muslim groups vociferously reacted against McCain’s remarks, just added validity to his comments, and indeed value for his presidential nomination hopes….
… just minutes after I received this one from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR):
(WASHINGTON, D.C., 10/1/07) – The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today called on presidential candidate Sen. John McCain to appoint a Muslim campaign advisor and a Muslim White House aide if elected in 2008.
CAIR’s request came following McCain’s remarks that America is a "Christian" nation and that he would not be comfortable with a Muslim in the White House.
In response to a question from Beliefnet.com about the possibility of a Muslim presidential candidate, the Arizona senator said: "I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, that’s a decision the American people would have to make, but personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith."…
Both dealt with John McCain’s statement that we are "a Christian nation."
One of the vagaries of being a newsman who doesn’t watch TV is that I frequently hear about "news" developments (and I put "news" in quotes to denote those items that everybody who watches TV hears about, but those of us who read The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal only see if we look really hard) first from groups that are spinning the developments to suit their aims. It can be weird, not hearing these things straight the first time. But you know, if enough blind men describe the elephant, you might get an idea what it looks like, if you’re the strongly intuitive type.
Anyway, when I hear from B’nai B’rith on the subject, I’ll let you know.
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Whose Christian ideals? Mine? Yours? Are we talking about the 10 Commandments? Can’t be; those are Jewish. “Love each other as I have loved you?” I don’t know anyone who’s living up to that one. Are these the Christian ideals that brought the world several Crusades? The ideals that hanged witches in Salem? The ideals that burned crosses and lynched black persons? Most of the persons who participated in the formation of the Constitution were Deists, not Christians, contrary to what many wish to believe. I am concerned about anyone who wants a label (Christian, Jew, Buddist, Muslim, Hindu) rather than a chance to review the person’s track record in areas such as honesty, loyalty, patriotism, mercy, justice, and such. I want an intelligent president; I have no wish to debate theology with him/her.
Well said Karen. This is yet another example of what has bothered me about John McCain for quite some time. He seems to be pandering to more and more special interest groups all the time. Then he’ll back pedal for a while. Just look at how the whole Confederate flag issue engulfed his campaign. I was a big John McCain fan in 2000 but his shameless embrace of the man who slandered his family was the first hint that he was anything but the straight talker he proclaimed himself to be. The fact that his bus logo (the no surrender tour) so flagrantly attacks those of us who pragmatically want a non-military solution to the Iraq debacle smacks of an arrogance that is unbecoming of the presidency.
None of this takes away from John McCain’s honorable service to his country. But let’s not confuse honorable service for bonafide qualifications for president.
My grandmother’s Christian ideals would do, Karen.
Once upon a time, she bought a dress on sale at a department store. MSRP $50, it was marked down to $12.
When she got home, she called the store and asked to speak to the clerk that sold her the dress.
“Are you sure that dress was just $12?” my grandmother asked.
“Yes, Mrs. Smith,” the clerk said. “It was on sale.”
“Well, all right, then, I guess,” my grandmother said. “I just didn’t want that dress to stand between me and heaven.”
Oh, and in case you thought there was somebody out there who still had not been offended along these lines this week, I offer you this e-mail I received from a reader by way of comfort:
Confusing the metaphor for the message fits broken English to a T, and now I’ve provided room to confuse the idiom for the message.
Still, I can’t seem to make a dent here.
But it’s not for lack of trying.
Some people confuse the tedium for the message.
Come on now, Bud. What was Obama doing in two Baptist churches here last Sunday, if not appealing to people through his presence?
What interests me is the fact that a pastor would give him recognition at all. I don’t think I would, but maybe that the Lutheran influence on me. Church is for the worship of God, it is directed to Him, and our response is to the Word of God as it comes through the sermon and Scripture readings. No room for the acknowledgment of human dignitaries–that is not what a worship service is for–though I’d be interested in others’ reaction to that.
But I would dare say that no candidate is any different on what you call “pandering.”
Herb,I’m afraid you’re right.I could be wrong,but I have a gut feeling that our next president might be a politician.
Herb, The black culture easily allows for speakers in the pulpit. Your’s and my liturgical traditions don’t usually do that; but then, our liturgical traditions have been accepted as both ‘protestant’ and ‘mainstream’ (not to mention ‘white’). I have to remember that what they have endured has colored their outlook, and their childrens’ as much as any war experience has changed anyone. And theirs’ has been going on since before the Civil War. Obama was talking for votes, like every other would-be president has. He just went where the votes were, like most have.
Weldon, you gave us one specific virtue. You did not begin to address all the others. We are, after all, talking about “Christian Virtues.” Plural.
Well, not really. The New Testament develops the 10 commandments much further and internalizes them to the point of questioning motives and intents. Besides Biblical Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism’s hope in a Messiah.
Hmmm. Pretty much true, though Roger Sherman (member of Jonathan Edward’s church in Connecticut), John Adams, John Witherspoon, Patrick Henry, and John Jay (first Supreme Court Chief Justice) were evangelical Christians, and not the only ones, though perhaps among those who allowed their faith to interact with politics. One signer of the Decl. of Indepence as a Catholic. Still, the general tendency was toward a deist view of a benevolent God, but to do justice to McCain, there was no Muslim or Hindu among the Founding Fathers–which is surely what McCain is driving at.
True to a certain extent, but unfortunately, one cannot simply jettison theology so simply. The theology of karma that undergirds Hindu thought provides an answer to suffering, but it is not the same as the Christian answer, which seeks to alleviate it. Hindu practice does not tend to raise up Mother Theresas. The example and life of Christ (notice that I do not write “Christians,” who have not always behaved as Christ commanded) has made a huge impact upon other religions, modifying what has otherwise tended to be very dictatorial and racist practice.
This is not to say that we aren’t responsible to exist humbly and with respect toward other nationalities. But to assume naively that we represent the same values–I’m afraid that the reality is different. Ultimately our view of God determines our view of ourselves and other people. A God whom we respect in fear and awe, and yet one who is so compassionate as to give Himself to us in His Son, is a good basis for human relationships. It combines a sense of respect and value with a desire to serve for the common good.
Some form of evangelical Christianity, combined with deism, common-sense philosophy, and a touch of hedonism was probably a unique combination to begin the USA. But I wonder what will happen when the formula gets changed too much?
Please note that I am not advocating defending Christian politics like some kind of crusader. Christians need the temperance of other philosophies, otherwise they tend to become little theocrats in the political realm. But if Christians need balance–well, so do the rest, perhaps even more so.
Idiom, metaphor, tedium — it’s like skipping the scene at the Russell House to attend one of Dr. Geckle’s English classes back in my lost phase at Carolina, while I was living over the boiler in the ZBT house.
If you think global warming’s a problem, try 110 degrees F. by day during the dead of winter.
Herb,
Obama was in my church (First Baptist) on Sunday. He didn’t speak, was only introduced briefly by the Pastor, and left immediately after the service.
Coincidentallly, our church was celebrating Greek Day to honor the USC fraternities and sororities. It was interesting to see the rush of college students who tried to get to shake Barack’s hand during the “greet your neighbor” portion of the service. I’m 100% sure they wouldn’t be as enthusiastic about Biden or McCain. There was a palpable sense of young people looking for a “different” type of politician than the ilk we are currently stuck with.
Also, it was interesting to hear the comments of the elderly women who sit behind us in the church. They made several comments about Obama being “black” and “how could a Muslim dare to come into the church”. I tried to tactfully explain to them that Obama is a baptized Christian but they wanted to hear nothing of it. Unfortunately, these are the typical people who vote in South Carolina – they get their marching orders from Rush, Hannity, and O’Reilly.
One more point, Herb – Pastor Estep at First Baptist spent more time recoginizing a couple that was celebrating their 60th wedding anniversary than he did Senator Obama. He did nothing more than say “We welcome Senator Obama from Illinois”. Obama stood up, received a brief polite applause (from a congregation that would probably be considered the political equivalent of Daniel’s lions den), and sat down.
I’ve seen Dr. Estep do the same for any number of politicians over the years. It’s called being respectful to your guests.
Karen,
All I gave you was a true story. I have no intent of debating Christian values.
Here’s why: You can damn Christian values, dredging up the Crusades to somehow make every Christian evil, but political correctness keeps me from damning Muslim values, dredging up the last 100 car bombs, 9-11 and Muslims’ treatment of women as something less than fence posts, even in this country.
If Christians are what believers do, then Muslims are, too.
But no. We can’t talk about that.
Besides, to appease the complaining Muslims, McCain said in Spartanburg, yesterday I think, that he could accept a Muslim as president if he or she were qualified.
Reaching for the high ground, McCain has sunk himself neck-deep into the mud again.
Surprise, surprise.
Thanks, Doug. I was wanting some comments, and that’s helpful from someone who was there. I also was not meaning to suggest that Obama shouldn’t go to church.
I have not attended First Baptist, but I have heard nothing but respectful comments about Dr. Estep.
I’m still not sure what I would have done in his place, but thankfully I didn’t have to decide.
The reaction of some in the congregation that you mention is too bad, and here’s hoping that it will eventually die out with an older generation. There are definitely some new developments that are positive, and if that is what Karen was referring to above, then I agree with her (though I think it is more complicated than that).
However, I think my original point, that it is definitely to the political advantage of any candidate campaigning in SC to be seen in church, is still valid. That is not meant to be judgmental on the candidate–I just don’t think we should then criticize McCain or Obama on the issue.
Those who want to can check out the discussion here.
Weldon, you so miss the point. There are Christians whose values I consider very un Christ like. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims, good and bad Hindu, and probably good and bad Polynesian frog worshippers. The Hindu produced Ghandi; in the middle ages Islam held the intellectual and cultural lead; some of our best scientists are both good persons and atheists. I am more interested in the person’s qualifications and motivations than in any specific religious affiliation. After all we’ve had 8 years of a ‘Christian’ and his values certainly are not mine. Nobody is “damning Christian values.” At least until someone define’s “Christian values.” By the way, I want no part of a God who would send your Granny to Hell over a misquoted price on a dress, especially when she wasn’t the one who quoted the price to start with.
I wouldn’t want any part of that God, either, Karen, but that wasn’t the point of the story about my grandmother.
How good was she? So good she didn’t want the biggest department store under one roof east of the Mississippi (this was long before Wal-Mart) to cheat itself or one of its clerks on her behalf.
She wouldn’t have made a very good president, though. Neither did the last guy who actually seemed to live the Christian value set pretty well, Jimmy Carter.
You see, I didn’t “so miss the point.” It’s just that I gave up long ago on getting competent, just leadership absent rampant ego and partisan politics. If Diogenes couldn’t find an honest man, how could anyone expect to find an honest politician, when only politicians have the chance to become president?
For me, trumpeting Christian values is no red flag, because people have been preaching Christian values to me since I was two years old, and now it all just goes in one ear and out the other. I’m looking for what’s behind the Christian values facade.
In the case of George Bush, to my disappointment, in eight years, nothing has shown up yet. And though I voted for him twice, I was just voting against Gore and then Kerry, a pair of men for whom I am confident the word “egomania” was coined.
Where McCain is concerned, however, a little Christian values talk is no bother, because I know there’s more to him than posturing.
His changing postures day by day, though, warns me away.
Weldon, I have gotten to the point where, when a politician starts talking about his/her Christian faith, I check my wallet. I think that talk is hypocritical and designed purely to fool naive people into believing the politician is good. I am looking for a person who ‘shows’ me his faith through his ‘works’. I’m a sort of “faith without good works is dead” person, which is why I thought the word “egomania” was coined to describe Bush. Unfortunately, for most politicians the closest to honesty that one can hope for is that he stays bought. Thats why I’m looking at people’s track record. What has he or she actually done? I realize that you and I are very unlikely to vote for the same person, but with the fields we have in each party, I can at least see politicians I can live with on both sides. I just pray that this time the two who are finally chosen are the best, not the worst. I would like to vote for someone, rather than against someone.
I can wholeheartedly agree with those last two sentences, Karen. Let the best candidates win and let me vote for one of them, not against the other.
For that to happen, however, somebody’s going to have to show me he or she hasn’t yet.
Oops. Somebody’s going to have to show me SOMETHING he or she hasn’t yet.
“Something in the way he or she moves…”