Somebody wrote me an e-mail today saying,
Brad-
No blog post on yesterday’s tea parties? Shame on you.
Tom Willett
Now that doesn’t give me much to go on, but I’m sort of guessing that Tom thought I’d have something NICE to say about these demonstrations. That’s usually the case with such nonspecific comments. Which brings to mind the old Bugs Bunny line, “He don’t know me very well, do he?”
And you know, I don’t want to say anything snide. I did say something snide at the actual event yesterday, and felt bad about it, because those folks were all pretty well behaved and probably sincere and it was a beautiful day, but sometimes you can’t help yourself. But I’m not going to repeat it. I mean, my rep’s bad enough already. In fact, when I ran into Andy Haworth from thestate.com, who was shooting video of the event, he joked (I think it was a joke) that he’d better get away from me lest he catch a stray bullet.
Ironically, he said that not far from the spot when the first editorialist for The State, N.G. Gonzales, was shot down in broad daylight by the lieutenant governor, James Tillman. Y’all know the story: Tillman shot him in cold blood in front of multiple witnesses, including a cop — and the Lexington County jury (there was a change of venue) acquited him, on the grounds that N.G. had written all sorts of mean, nasty ugly things about the killer, causing him to lose an election, and therefore had it coming. That was in 1903.
He got shot, and I only got laid off. So times are better for editorialists, although getting laid off lacks the romance of the way N.G. went out. He did it with style, too. Remember what he said as he fell? “Shoot again, you coward.” Editorialists had a lot of sand in those days.
Oh, but I was supposed to be writing about the anti-tax thing. Look, y’all know how I am about this subject. I’ve always thought the fuss that some whiny people make over what they call “Tax Day” is ridiculous, and a demonstration such as this just doesn’t connect with me. I don’t get it why people resent paying their taxes so much. But they do go on about it, don’t they? (When I see all these folks walking around with “Don’t Tread on Me” flags and such, on a beautiful day in the freest country in the history of the world, I wonder how they would react if they actually were oppressed? What if they lived in a country where you got shot or locked up for protesting? Would it matter enough to them to do so? What if they actually lived in a country that HAD no government to tax them — say, Somalia? Would they like that better? Or worse? I don’t know.)
Go on as they did, even they had a limit. I missed most of the rally because I had an appointment at noon. I arrived at about 1:30, expecting it to go until 2 as announced. But it ended at 1:41. I guess they didn’t have as much outrage as planned, or something.
I shot the above video with my phone. As you can see, what I captured was pretty vanilla stuff, not much to write home about. Maybe the parts I missed were more exciting. Probably not to me, but to someone.
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The actual grounds for the acquittal of Tillman was self defense. N.G. had his hands in his pockets and Tillman’s lawyers claimed that he (Tillman) was afraid that N.G. was about to draw on him.
Real American taxpayers, protesting the slide into fascism under Obama.
How dare they?
Just wait until Obama gets those urban youth trained up and armed in his new volunteer corps of “Domestic Security Force”. Then he’ll be able to scatter these silly protesters.
What a coincidence that the Dept of Homeland Security released a warning to local police that “tax protesters”, “veterans”, and “advocates of gun rights” might be terrorists.
Meanwhile, Obama went on TV to assure his drones that they would be getting another “tax cut”, even if they don’t pay taxes, so why would anyone be protesting taxes?
Because most Americans are not as dumb as the typical Obama Believer. They know how Roosevelt, Mussolini, and Hitler subverted democratic government into one-party rule under cult leaders.
I was not at the rally but isn’t the movement also concerned about the types of taxes and the manner in which they are imposed as well as coupling tax reduction with a reduction in the size of government? I am sure that, as with any movement there are adherent who tag along for the most basic reason (here to pay less taxes) but at its core the organizing principals are a bit more sophisticated.
Comparing our president to Hitler, par for the course at the circus yesterday.
SCNaive, be the first GOP/conservative/libertarian/tea bagger to explain exactly what spending should be cut. You propose we cut taxes and cut spending. HOW? Offer up some specifics aside from the bluster.
You’re right Brad, I don’t particularily care what you think about the protests. For what it’s worth, most of the protesters were there to voice their opinions and feelings about the massive amount of money being spent by the current administration and concerns about placing a heavy mortgage on their children’s and grandchildren’s future. The one my wife went to was attended by a good cross section of SC citizens covering race, gender, religion, and most were independents, not members of either party. They are genuinely concerned about the trillions and trillions being spent by Obama. Aren’t you?
They are tired of the blame game coming from both sides of the aisle and are ready for some adult supervision over our future. Neither Democrats or Republicans have the best interest of the citizens of this state or country in mind, only the furtherment of their own ambitions and realizations of self importance. Neither side has demonstrated the ability or worthiness to oversee this country.
Besides, what is to you, Randy, or anyone else if people decide to go to a public demonstration, behave themselves, and not act in the expected manner by screaming obscenities, throwing objects, trashing buildings and grounds, and generally making an ass of themselves? The press doesn’t know how to act with civil demonstrations. They think it is subversive. Just read the latest report from the Obama version of DHS.
Aren’t they entitled to express their opinions and practice freedom of speech that you, Randy, Rich, and others pretend to defend and hold so dear? They just were not exciting enough were they? Maybe if a few had stripped and streaked with the “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, it may have peaked your interest. Sorry if the common folks bore you so.
Randy, don’t even go there by making a snide remark about SCnative’s Hitler inclusion in his post. From what I can recall from your side of the aisle, it was a daily occurence to call Bush another Hitler and if not mistaken, you are guilty as well. You haven’t earned the right to bitch or complain on that one.
Yeah, it is funny how you described the peaceful protest as a circus but when your side shows it’s collective behind, you are practicing freedom of speech and it is an exercise in democracy. You remind me of the UNC students who prevented Tancredo from speaking on campus recently. Freedom of speech? HYPOCRITE!!!
You know, I listen to a lot of Nobel prize winning economists but none of them make as much sense as James Gregory (thebigshow.com) or John Rich (Shutting Detroit Down). Scoff if you like, but the tea party folks understand what is happening to our children”s money.
The problem isn”t that the issues are complicated and we try to make them simple. The isssues are simple and the academicians try to make them complicated.
I am all for the tea party crowd!
Right on, Bart! Those tax protesters sure were a lot more civil and sane than those hysterical teachers shouting to lynch Mark Sanford.
Obvious spending to be cut includes:
1. The entire $787 billion Pelosi spending bill
2. The $393 billion in new annual social welfare spending under Bush
3. Abolish the Medicare Drug Benefit added by Bush
4. Abolish the Dept of Education
5. Abolish all grants to private advocacy groups like ACORN
6. Cut Medicare by the 31% lost to fraud
7. Phase out Social Security before it goes broke ( too late! It will go broke in a few months)
8. Shut down FNMA, FMAC and FHA
9. Sterilize both parents of any child born to people on welfare.
10. No government workers retiring before age 65.
And let’s start converting them over to private accounts like the rest of us, by paying them off in cash out of the “trust funds”, not the promised benefits. Cash them out, clean up the books, take them off the taxpayers’ backs.
11. No retirement benefits for Congressmen, Senators, the President or judges. They make enough to fund their own retirement.
If someone, like a left-wing hate-monger, calls someone a “fascist”, they are just trying to smear them, without any basis. Modern socialists are children of Soviet communism, which used to like fascism, until Hitler invaded Russia. Then “fascism” became a dirty word to them.
The economic revolution proposed by Obama is part of a political system known as fascism.
It is too early know if Obama intends to convert the political system to fascism, but there is no disputing that he went back to FDR for his economic policies. FDR got some of them from Hoover and Keynes, and more of them from Mussolini. Hitler also got his economic policies from Mussolini. FDR, Mussolini and Hitler were not the same, but their economics were, and they failed.
The tax protesters know their history.
Barack Obama was raised by communists, Stalinists. He is a student of the socialists at Columbia and Harvard, of Saul Alinsky, Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. He is some sort of socialist. We’ll soon know.
How about we stop using the “Hitler” label altogether? After all, I haven’t seen Obama or Bush sending 6 million people to the gas chambers. Not much room for discussion when we label each other after demagogues and genocidal maniacs.
I didn’t label Mr. Obama. He labeled himself.
He has called himself a “communist”, a “socialist”, a “Marxist”, a “progressive”, etc. He won’t say what his end goal is.
I explained in detail the difference between ignorant misuse of the “fascist” name-calling by liberals and progressives against President Bush, and the specific criticism of Mr. Obama and the Democrats resorting to the economic policies of fascist Mussolini.
Mr. Brasher, I assumed that most people don’t know enough about economics and political economy to understand this very serious problem with the Democrats. That is why I tried to explain it. If you still do not understand it, then go study history, but don’t beg me to stop telling the truth.
No one had seen Hitler murdering millions of Jews and Slavs when they elected him. Liberals loved Hitler and Mussolini, because fascism was the result of their tiring of trying to convince people of their “superior” ideas, and were happy to have enlightened, strong leaders forcing through all these sweeping “reforms”. The New York Times and national American magazines praised Hitler.
Sound familiar?
The people at these rallies hear the sound of history repeating itself.
Herb, go to the Joe Darby topic and tell Mrs. Fenner why she is wrong to compare Mark Sanford to Hitler. I already did.
Bart, feel free to cite my specific post(s) in which I referred to W as Hitler. I am severly critical of him but you won’t find a Hitler reference.
SCNaive, that’s the best you have, reading from some Limblaugh script? “Liberals loved Hitler.” Obama “called himself a communist.” Feel free to incorporate facts or even reality into your posts.
While you and Bart are at it. Explain how tax cuts and spending cuts will save us from this financial crisis. Try this intellectual activity even once. Let’s hear either of you shed even an iota of justification for why you support tax and spending cuts.
I know you can’t do it because it’s indefensible when reasoning and justification are incorporated. We’ll get more parroting of Limblaugh talking points in your replies.
Is scnative really Lee Muller?
Amen to what Herb said. Or what Elvis Costello said: “two little hitlers will fight it out until/ one little hitler does the other one’s will.”
Greg, the official defense was self-defense. But it’s generally believed that the jury wasn’t swallowing that obviously bogus ploy. Only when NG’s editorials were entered into the trial did the tide start running against the prosecution.
Another fun fact; did you know the prosecutor was Strom Thurmond’s daddy?
My point is that those who have not put any thought into the crude economic schemes of the Democrats (these are not “programs”), have no right to criticize those protesters who actually are informed.
Lots of economists have noted that these stimulus schemes, seizures of banks, dictating to industry, and huge deficits are socialist, specifically of the fascist variety. All varieties of socialism are wrong, and will harm the economy and freedom of the people.
These policies may be legal in France or Russia, but not here. They are unAmerican, and unConstitutional.
You cannot have individual liberty without economic freedom.
I did know that. It was ironic because some years earlier he (Will Thurmond) was walking from the Edgefield Courthouse to his office about a block away. A drunk salesman began harassing him and saying that he was nothing but a tool of Bennie Tillman. When the salesman said Thurmond had no honor Will pulled a pistol from his suit jacket and shot the man in the heart.
Even in Lexington County lawyers (and many of the best lawyers in the State were involved on both sides) will not offer a defense of “he just needed killing.” I cannot read the minds of deceased jurors but it was not guilty by reason of self defense regardless of whether that was what the jury genuinely thought. N.G.’s editorials were sharp but were not out of keeping with the editorial tone of the day.
Another point of interest about the trial is that while their was an official court reporter, the State hired its own stenographer to record the proceedings, a young man named James F. Byrnes.
How would anyone know that the trial started running against the prosecution when the editorials were introduced into evidence? If any juror had made this evident that would have been a problem. The real killer (no pun intended) was that the defense succeeded in having the case moved to Lexington County which was yellow dog Tillman Country. The entire defense case was bogus, but pointing to the editorials as THE reason for acquittal is, I believe, an oversimplification. I have spent a fair amount of time spooling through microfilm of contemporaneous newspaper accounts of the trial and think that the prosecution was doomed from the begining because of venue, but the verdict was self defense.
SCnaive, there are plenty of conservative economists who champion stimululs.
First: Martin Feldstein, who along with Phil Gramm advised McCain. He suggests STIMULUS and derides tax rebates such as the one used in mid 2008.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/29/AR2008102903198.html
Here’s another. Mark Zandi of economy.com (conservative) supported the house version because it offered MORE spending.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-inside-job/2009/02/10/more-jobs-created-in-house-stimulus-bill-say-economists.html
And another: Lawrence B. Lindsey, a Bush administration economist who championed a trillion dollar package.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/12/21/obamas_stimulus_plan_growing_as_economy_contracts/
Obviously, there are conservative economist who oppose this. Given that prominent CONSERVATIVE economists along with moderate and progressive economists support stimulus, it’s clear that there is some consensus beyond Der Leader Limblaugh.
Of course there are supporters of this stimulus spending, some of them honest. That doesn’t mean the policies of bank seizure and managerial control of GM is not fascist.
Since the TARP bailout came under President Bush, are you really surprised to find one of his advisors supporting the continuation of the policies by Obama?
John McCain had lots of bad advisors. The reason conservatives don’t like McCain and Bush was their support of wasteful social spending and cheap foreign immigrant labor.
200 economists take out ads opposing the “stimulus spending”.
http://www.openmarket.org/2009/01/27/fiscal-reality-check/
I apologize for being a bit terse above, but I think that the reasoning of each juror in coming to his decision is a matter of speculation and all that is known is the verdict. I understand that the State (the paper) has a strong corporate lore about the matter. However, like many legends, that lore may have diverged from what is knowable over time. It may be true but i don’t think anyone can state it as fact. Just my opinion.
Sc Native has to be Lee Muller. The line about sterilizing parents on welfare is a dead giveaway.
I’m all for dissent in a free country, so assuming that Bart’s characterization of the protests is accurate (I’m out of town and so did not see any of it firsthand) then, good for them, even though I don’t agree. That’s part of the change Obama brought, disagreeing with the President does not make you unpatriotic, so even though Faux News may have once branded such dissent that way, those of us who generally support Obama’s policies should make sure we don’t behave in the way Bush-supporters did in the last few years.
From my own point of view I would say that the protest-within-a-protest coming from the Fair Tax people is more legit, in the sense that they at least propose a concrete alternative to the income tax, i.e., the 30% sales tax. Maybe that would not be a viable alternative, not enough income generated, perhaps a regressive tax, but at least they’re not just protesting ALL taxation, period. That to me is a sign that they are a little more mature, adult, than the other crowd.
Actually, I learned a good deal of what I know about the case from Donnie Myers, who knows a thing or two about Lexington County juries.
Studying that trial is a passion of the solicitor’s. He has a presentation that he gives about it that is very dramatic and well done.
Small anecdote on the subject — back around the centennial, Donnie came to The State to give his lecture on the subject to newspaper employees, to teach them about their heritage. At the end of his talk he made the point — sort of facetiously — that editors should be careful what they write about people. As he spoke, he looked at me (or mentioned me or in some way made it clear he was directing the remarks at me), and he drew a .45 semiautomatic pistol from his briefcase, and brandished it about for a few seconds. I was standing at the front of the room a few feet away, where I had stayed after making introductions.
I smiled, appreciating Donnie’s sense of humor — but my then-publisher, Ann Caulkins, later said she about had a stroke at that moment. Ann had a phobia about guns, and being anywhere near one made her nervous. Just a personal quirk. She knew that our editorial board had been pretty strongly critical of the solicitor, and there was reason to believe he was still pretty ticked at us about it, even though he had agreed to do his presentation for us.
Just another little memory from 22 years at The State…
One more fun fact, Greg: One of Tillman’s defense lawyers was Cole Blease.
My point exactly Herb. It is time for BOTH sides to drop the references to historical monsters like Hitler, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, and a few others when we are trying to make a comparison between present and past. The idea that Bush or Obama could ever be mentioned in the same breath as Hitler is totally ridiculous and borders on insane.
On a previous post by Brad, he addressed the use of extremes to make a point. When one is uses such comparisons, it indicates a lack of understanding and knowledge of history.
SCnative, at least you responded to the challenge to Randy and made some proposals. Not that I agree with all of them but you did make the effort. You might want to consider dropping #9. Not a good idea and it detracts from any credibility you have on the others.
It is intellectually dishonest to discuss an engineering proposal, medical treatment, social policy, or fiscal and economic policies, without examining where they have been tried before, and whether they succeeded or failed.
America is not legally open to any and every experiment, either. Political leaders are supposed to be severely restrained to only the explicit powers granted to them by the Constitution.
If any of you don’t have the stomach to face the fact that many of the existing programs are remnants of the socialism of the 1930s, and that many of the proposals to have government dictate the operations of banks and manufacturing companies is a form of socialism originated by Mussolini and Adolph Hitler, then you are supporting or opposing these policies based on your emotions, not your intellect.
More importantly, you need to stop looking at what Obama and Pelosi just did to you, and look further down the road, at what they plan for you, if you want to be proactive instead of reactive.
That’s what these protesters are doing – looking ahead at the threats to confiscate their wealth, limit their incomes, and take away their freedom of speech, travel and self-defense.
I knew my proposal #9 to sterilize unwed welfare mothers, would be distasteful, and I don’t necessarily advocate it, but it was a policy of the Progressives of the 1930s that was tried in the US, before being picked up by Germany, Sweden and other European socialist countries. Right now, the liberals who promote the breeding of more poor children have offered no alternative proposals to clean up the mess they made.
Lee did well posing as SCNaive. He didn’t go whacky until the end of this thread. His unfounded and disproven ideas were Lee-esque and I even pointed that out. Now the whacko is out of the bag.
Regardless, there remain those who adhere to his ideas about the economy. The pledge of 200 economists was promoted by the echo chamber Cato Institute. In their site was also an article in which the recent collapse of the economy was cited as the first step to recovery. Let me write that again. On the Cato site, one of the puppets actually suggested that no stimulus was needed because the crisis itself is a step towards recovery. That is analagous to saying getting cancer is the first step towards recovering from cancer. Here’s the link.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9901
So it comes to this. The choice is Obama with his support from progressive, moderate, and many conservative economists and his stimulus plan or Limblaugh and the Cato Institute who believe the crisis simply means recovery is on the way.
Bart, LOL you bought into Lee’s proposals except for a minor difference of opinion on sterilizing people? If I found out I agreed with most of the ideas of Charles Manson, I consider it an epiphany and change my ways.
Speaking of Lee, I completely overlooked this laundry list towards the beginning. I was suckered into a debate with Lee. I like it better when he goes by Lee because it’s easier to type.
I didn’t know liberals proposed the breeding of more poor children. I thought they were the ones who advocated abortion.
You want to talk breeding more children, you have to look to a guy like me.
Randy, are you blind and have no ability to comprehend the written word???…. read again for effect – O.K…. ” SCnative, at least you responded to the challenge to Randy and made some proposals. “”Not that I agree with all of them”” but you did make the effort.” Now, what part didn’t you understand?
There is some truth to the comment that a failure had to take place before recovery could begin. If we don’t know the problem, how can we start to repair, cure, or fix it? In this instance, it was well camouflaged and by the time the cover was removed, most of the damage was done.
Much like undetected termites destroying the foundation and walls of a structure, the problem we are facing now is more of a structural one than anything in recent memory. The dot.com bubble burst did not damage the very foundations of our financial system but this one has. We were able to recover with tax cuts before but tax cuts alone won’t be the answer this time. It will take a combination of many initiatives and a better system of oversight and regulations before we can fully recover if ever and put in place safeguards that will be effective without becoming a socialist state. Right now, I don’t believe anyone or any group have the right answers.
Randy E is not exactly a real, full, legal name.
I wanted to post a comment, and this blog required me to create a username. Not knowing its capabilities, I used a reasonably long single word, with some capital letters, which is descriptive. If there is a way to modify my screen name and password, I would be glad to do so.
Randy names three economists who promote Keynesian deficit spending, who have been associated with the liberal spending policies of GW Bush and John McCain, and tries to pass them off as “conservative economists” who support Pelosi’s stimulus plan ( Not Obama’s. He was not even elected when it was written. In fact, most of the projects in it are ones rejected in the prior 10 years.
Martin Feldstein did not support the more than $2 trillion of deficit spending of Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi. He said $100 billion might not be enough, and that the projects had to be put into action immediately. Hindsight shows that failed to happen.
Ohio is just now starting to spend $57,000,000 on study of what road projects to do with their stimulus portk.
The Mortgage Rescue Program so far has served ONE homeowner.
In the same time period, March, Wells Fargo refinanced 3,500,000 homes.
The fastest way to stimulate the economy would have been to suspend collection of the 2008 individual and corporate income taxes, and refund all the tax prepayments. It would require no administration costs, take effect within days, and cost less in terms of deficits.
Let’s be clear here.. Brad has admitted he doesn’t do his taxes and that he doesn’t care about money — and based on that, he calls people who do their taxes and care about how their money is wasted, “whiners”.
I guess I started “whining” about my taxes when I realized my wife and I were paying $40,000 a year for something others get for free.
I don’t have a problem with paying taxes for those services that government should do.
But when I pay for Medicare and see (by the government’s own admission) that there is $70 billion dollars of fraud, that tends to make me wonder why I should pay so much.
When the IRS’ own public ombudsman came out last week saying that the tax code is beyond complex and results in 8 BILLION hours of American’s time to comply with, then a sane person (not a whiner) might ask how we got to this point.
To quote her:
“By Scott Canon, McClatchy-Tribune News Service
Published: Sunday, April 12, 2009 at 3:30 a.m. ”
‘Even the Internal Revenue Service’s taxpayer advocate declares that “it adds insult to injury that … taxpayers today find filing so complicated that they feel compelled to pay transaction fees simply to file their taxes.”‘
A code that is almost 3 inches thick in fine print accompanied by a foot-tall document of IRS regulations backed by 25 volumes of explaining “summaries” that fill 9 feet of shelf space, the 6.7-million-word riddle that determines what you owe Washington is the enemy of simple. And it’s getting more aggressively convoluted all the time.
The changes in tax code since 2001 average out to more than one daily, including 500 in 2008 alone. The size of the code has tripled since 1975. Not one, but two newsletters publish up to 500 pages daily to keep professionals clued in to the shifting U.S. tax landscape.
The IRS is not the real bogeyman here. As Pogo said decades ago, the enemy is us – or at least those people on Capitol Hill so intent on pleasing us. Deduction for your home mortgage interest? Few homeowners would part with that savings. A break for home energy conservation or a hybrid car? Green is gold. Allowances for college bills? Every little bit helps. And so it goes.
But the sum total of good intentions piles on one after another, making for an April 15 nightmare.
“On the one hand, taxpayers who honestly seek to comply with the law often make inadvertent errors, causing them either to overpay” or pick a fight with the taxman, says a report by the IRS taxpayer advocate. “On the other hand, sophisticated taxpayers often find loopholes that enable them to reduce or eliminate their tax liabilities.”
—-
So keep calling those of us who might eventually fix the broken system “whiners”, Brad. You’ll reap the benefits of others hard work without having to lift a finger.
Oh, I care about if the money’s wasted, Doug. I just don’t complain about paying taxes. I want it not to be wasted after I pay it, though. But you’re changing the subject. I was talking about taxes.
By the way, you know how the tax code got so complicated? Lots of people whining about their taxes — especially the whiners who can hire lobbyists. If everybody just paid up their taxes cheerfully, the system could be really simple. How much did you make? OK, then pay this amount.
Speaking of complicated: You know what would make everything simpler for the vast majority of us who pay our taxes through payroll deduction? If our employers were able to take out exactly what we were going to owe, no more and no less. Impossible, you say? Well, my wife, who as you note does the taxes at our house, reports that up in Pennsylvania, where she spent a year with our youngest daughter who was studying ballet there, they make it come out exactly. No refunds, and no check to write the gummint at the end of the year. Sounds good to me.
Of course, you pay more in taxes up there. And you get more. The level of services folks take for granted up there is just unthinkable down this way.
One of my most gratifying experiences having to do with the issue of tax burdens has to do with Pennsylvania. Back when Fred Mott was my publisher — and he was a great guy to work for, except for this one thing — I had to argue with him a lot because he believed taxes in SC were high. (He felt this way because he had come from Florida, where there was no income tax, and somehow his resentment over having to pay a state income tax just distorted his perception of the whole tax structure.)
Fred left us to go work in Philadelphia. About a month later, he called me on the phone to say, “I’ll never again say that taxes are high in South Carolina.” Pennsylvania adjusted his attitude. In particular, he resented paying a tax for being employed in Philadelphia when he lived outside the city.
I loved it. It made up for all those frustrating conversations we had had on the subject previously.
If the money isn’t available to waste, there won’t be as much waste.
It all comes down to value. My perception is that I do not get sufficient value for the taxes I pay. I use the same roads, the same schools, the same fire department, the same libraries, the same military as all other citizens have access to — yet I pay an amount in taxes that at least 75% do not.
How can a system that charges people different amounts (including zero) for the same benefits be considered reasonable?
There is a system available that would allow for no tax filing. Fairtax. A national sales tax. Everybody pays the same percentage. No filing, no tax lawyers, no tax evasion cases, no loopholes. For it or against it, Brad?
Here’s my latest example that you can consider whining. I dropped my home phone service down to the bare minimum two months ago. No long distance, no features, nothing but an ability to receive calls and make local calls. The monthly cost is around $16.97 for that service. I got my first bill after making the switch and it was for a little over $35. The taxes, fees, surcharges, etc. were more than the cost of the phone line. An effective tax rate of over 100%. But I guess in Brad’s world I should be happy to pay those taxes.
The government depends on creating as many sheep as possible.
Right, Doug, the legislators will spend every cent they can get.
A tax attorney told me long ago, “The government has way more money than it needs. Politicians need to keep finding ways to spend money because it keeps productive people under their control, and it buys votes from the indolent, and campaign donations from businesses who want contracts.”
These tax protesters were not complaining just about their taxes, but about their country:
* overall taxation consumes too much of the productivity
* government is too big and intrusive
* taxes are grossly unfair. Only 16% of Americans pay any income taxes.
* the mean attitude of contempt for businesses, farmers, investors and entrepreneurs in Washington today
For it or against it? Doug, the best description of my position would be “unconvinced.” Unconvinced that it’s needed, and unconvinced that it would work as advertised.
We looked into it a bit back when Jim DeMint was first pushing it, and since that’s been awhile I don’t remember all of what we found. But I remember two things: I’m not crazy about the idea of a 30 percent sales tax. And the idea that the need for an IRS or anything like it would go away didn’t fully hold up. This, of course, wasn’t a selling point to me, because I don’t see the IRS as wicked and horrible the way the tax whiners do. It’s neutral to me. Have an IRS or not have an IRS. Of course, you ARE going to have a revenue department of some sort, and it will employ some people. It might be minimal, but there would be something.
The reason that the idea that you could eliminate the bureaucracy didn’t hold up was that, as I recall, the advocates answered concerns about the regressiveness of sales taxes (which, I have to tell you, is a big selling point to some of the people who advocate it) by saying that people with an income below a certain amount could get reimbursements of the tax paid. Well, I don’t know how you do that without a bureaucracy of people tracking how much money people make and processing or denying their claims for reimbursement. Seems to me that while that would probably be smaller than the IRS, it would still be an entity that did some of the same things.
So, bottom line, I’m unconvinced. I certainly can’t see people getting so pumped about it that they attend rallies on the subject…
And Lee, I’d really prefer it if you went back to your real name. I’m an SC native, too, so it doesn’t distinguish you. But “Lee Muller” is a name the rest of us cannot claim.
Do you realize that you are the one guy who I get the most requests to ban from the blog? But you know what I tell people? I tell them Lee’s a made guy on this blog, because he uses his real, full name. And that entitles you to get away with more around here. Why would you throw that hard-earned status away?
President Reagan ordered a study of alternatives to the current tax system that are still valid.
An 11.8% flat income tax on every worker would be revenue neutral.
A 10% retail sales tax would be far more than necessary for normal services.
If Social Security and Medicare were reformed and phased out, and welfare programs cleaned up, those could be reduced by more than half.
Those who don’t get excited over taxes are the sheep who don’t know how business works, and have no ambition of building an estate for their children. They expect to work on a salary, retire on an pension, die, and let their children do the same.
Someone whose family has worked for generations to build a business, and has to break it up and lay off employees to pay a 45% estate tax has reason to become very angry about taxes
The problem with the deficit spending of Clinton, Bush and especially now Obama, is that the tax rates required by 2018 to service the debt will double what they are now.
Even if you are compliant enough to submit to a 40% tax rate, you won’t like 80%.
Those already paying over 50% obviously cannot pay 100%.
The drones who support Obama and pay little or no taxes now will find themselves paying energy sales taxes of 25% to 40% and other such hidden taxes, built into their utility bills, food, housing and automobile prices. They will wonder what happened to all that wealth Obama was going to steal for them.
I have been reading and long ago determined Lee is SCNative, as well as Patriot on the State’s comments.
I had decided to log on and congratulate him for how well, how civil, how not-nearly-so-bad at banging the same drum, and I, too, noticed he went of today
Well, you’ve been doing good Lee. I went off several times at The State today myself.
I appreciate you trying another persona. I think it was intentional and a way to change your voice/ footprint. I bet it was a lot less stressful.
Thanks, martin.
I organized a tax protest in Columbia in 1977. There had always been some people at the Post Office every year, but we had one at the IRS building on Sumter Street. About 25 people came. IRS agents hid in the bushes and took photos of everyone, and spent the weekend tracing license plates. On Monday, they mailed out audit notices to all of us.
We called a press conference, which The State paper, a block away, refused to attend. The IRS claimed it was a “coincidence”. Several of us filed FOIA requests and got bills in advance at 25 cents a page. Several of the attorneys who showed up had 900 pages or more of surveillance, detailing meetings in restaurants, clients, etc.
It all ended up in Congressional hearings, when IRS whistleblowers revealed a quota system for collections, a secret spy unit to destroy authors and speakers, especially CPAs and attorneys, and the use by the Carter administration to go after political enemies.
Our tax system has been subverted from collecting revenue to controlling social behavior, and intimidating political dissenters. Clinton abused it. Carter abused it. You can bet Obama intends to set records for abuse of the IRS and every other agency.
Bart, the only point Lee has made that loses him credibility is sterilizing the poor? A guy makes a point like that and you offer strong support for him – “might want to consider dropping lobbying for sterilization”. Perhaps in a couple days it will dawn on you how asinine that is.
Doug, let’s pretend Ron Paul is now president and gets his way. So you now pay taxes only in an amount that gives you “value” proportional to your use as you suggest. Explain how this plays out. Toll roads paved by private companies? Ambulances and fire departments are now on demand services? You and a select few neighbors chip in for private security?
Your wife is (or was) a public educator. She’s a public servant receiving tax dollars. So she now takes a 20% cut to teach at a private school? Tax dollars are wasted on paying people like her? Maybe you and some neighbors hire Lee to run the school for your kids. If he goes bankrupt halfway through the school year, you guys will simply find another private school for them.
As Brad is suggesting, you are not against taxes but against waste…or are you? If so, let’s hear how we exist in an all private sector.
Randy,
A Ron Paul presidency wouldn’t matter unless we also had a Ron Paul majority in Congress. He’d end up like Mark Sanford – right on the issues, wrong on the political games. Theoretically, though, a Ron Paul world would be based on the Constitution with limited government doing what it should do. It would have a non-intervention military policy. It would have a tax system where everyone contributed equally. It would reward people who have a strong work ethic and it would stay out of people’s business. It would abolish the ultimate Ponzi scheme known as Social Security. It would get the government out of the healthcare business where it inflates the costs for workers by paying below market rates for Medicare and allows rampant fraud to exist.
Please don’t bring my wife into the topic if you don’t know what you are talking about. She is not an educator. She works hard as an admin support person. Her pay is half of what she could make in the private sector but we made a decision that she would work in the school system until our kids get through it. Her salary is less than what we pay in taxes for the year. Think about that. She basically works for the government. It does offer us a very “inside” view of the school system though… the stuff that goes on in a supposed “good” school district makes me shudder to think what happens in the bad ones. I would be glad to discuss the particulars with you any time offline. Needless to say, in a Ron Paul world, she’d excel. Because she works hard, works fast, and is ethical. Those traits aren’t valued in government.
I respect Donnie Myers vast knowledge of the subject. How he knows the minds of those jurors is beyond me. A smart man who enjoys polishing an already good tale perhaps.
Randy, you have the basic problem of most people who fear freedom: you lack the imagination to envision even the most simple and obvious alternatives to authoritarian central control. You lack the historical perspective of being acquainted with the plethora of private-sector solutions which have worked.
Until 20 years ago, most homes in America were still protected by private or volunteer fire and rescue departments. Only the recent glut of local government expansion with federal grants changed the ratio. What is so good about replacing community spirit, and the sense of duty of volunteers, with hired employees that cost several times as much?
If you don’t like forced sterilization of those unfit to be parents, who have children they don’t want and abuse them, why is your only answer abortion or late-term infanticide? Your progressive ancestors promoted not just abortion, but sterilization, lobotomies, and the killing of the severely handicapped children and adults who were victims of childhood disease.
Randy, it is liberalism, and socialism that don’t have any answers.
The “solution” is to tax more, borrow more, spend more, waste more and surrender more freedom to little dictators.
11.8% would be revenue neutral for normal government.
But the government is too large, and has been outgrowing the economy for too long, so I would taper it down 1% a year from 11%, while we phased out Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and government pensions. Then we would only need 6% a year for the federal government.
States can run off a 5% sales tax, so they would also need to just abolish their income, property and estate taxes.
No federal estate taxes.
No capital gains taxes.
No corporate income taxes.
Randy,
You must be the thickest person I have ever encountered. Nothing gets inside except whatever makes it through a flawed filter, clogged with a far left indoctrination. You refuse to acknowledge that I made it quite clear that I do not agree with all of what Lee/SCnative had to say but in your unhinged, blind hatred of anything in defense of Lee, your response is to attack, attack, attack then twist and add to comments to make an invalid counterpoint. What a loser you must be.
You and those like you are the exact reason dialogue is impossible between the differing ideologies. Why don’t you concentrate on making your new state a better place to live and leave South Carolinians alone. We have enough honest progressives to work with and do not need absentee far leftist critics like you crawling in through the electronic woodwork.
You could take a lesson from Karen, Phillip, Laurin Manning, not too bright, and other intelligent people who are NOT leftist radicals but are reasonable liberals who want to engage in genuine dialogue without contortions and lies. Liberals tend to be a lot more intelligent and capable of understanding than leftists like you have no clue except whatever is real in your fantasy world. After this, how can anyone who is capable of reading and comprehension on a rudimentary level give credence or credibility to anything you post? This is my last response to you because it is an exercise in futility. You are the epitome of true ignorance, not Lee.
It must be lonely in your tiny world of self delusion.
SCNative:
I would suggest you review the changes to the building and fire codes. That is what led to significant increases in fire departments. Most of those changes were authored by insurance companies to reduce/limit claims.
ISO ratings also play a huge role in staffing and equipping fire departments. Guess who funds ISO, insurance companies.
ISO also rates building inspection departments for compliance with the building codes.
I also failed to mention that most fire department personnel are also trained as first responders, and some are actually emts. Because of ISO they must insure reduced response times, which are much shorter than EMS response standards.
Would you rather have someone tending to you or a loved one within 5-10 minutes, or 15-20 minutes?
The Gov’s idea that $700m. be spent on debt reduction is still very much on the table on the State level. This is a credible idea which many believe will have a more positive effect on the long term economic well being of SC. I certainly don’t ask you to agree with him but I think you should acknowledge that he has a rationale for his actions, that with legislative cooperation his ideas can be implemented (in whole or in part) and that his ideas are based on sound economics with which many agree and do not deserve the labels wacko or irrational. Disagree do not denigrate. To me the GA is culpable for not even offering to negotiate with the Gov.
Guys,
Very few people showed up to the Tax protests around the country–a few thousand here and there at best. Besides, Obama reduced taxes on income for most taxpayers with the stim! What’s the beef?
I think it’s ideological. Republicans sense that the country is embracing the FDR activist government approach again, and they’re afraid of it. Their ideology demands small government and the freedom for the wealthy to do whatever they want, even if the economy tanks!
BTW, did you see the lawsuit filed by the young lady from Chapin High School? And she considers herself conservative. Nevertheless, even reasonable conservatives know that a return to Herbert Hoover’s policies as advocated by Gov. Sanford can only result in a deepening economic depression.
I applaud this young lady for actually putting into practice what we teach kids in the public schools. I used this example in class today! Yes, you can stand up to the wealthy, the powerful, the religious fundamentalist bigots, the secessionists, and all the yahoos like Limbaugh who think they have a right to rule! They don’t.
And if they attempt to do something unconstitutional (like a coup, which would not surprise me), Napolitano’s department of Homeland Security is watching them.
The young lady is represented by perhaps the top Democratic lobbyist. I think that this is a matter of a powerful group identifying an attractive potential plaintiff and convincing her to allow her name to be used in the suit. Happens all the time but I hardly think its a matter of a young lady clinching her fist and saying “Gosh darn it, this just isn’t right and I’m going to do what they taught us in civics class and file a law suit!” This was developed at the very highest levels and will be very well funded. Nothing wrong with that but its not “Andy Hardy Files a Law Suit.” (I have no knowledge of the above, it is merely my opinion)
Doug, you cited your wife’s work in your posts so don’t blame me for referencing her in context. You’ve also been crass in criticizing education as a whole which means you are referencing us (as in educators) while laying blame.
I find it hypocritical that your household income includes tax dollars yet you decry having to pay taxes. Suggesting taxes are a waste, you are in fact saying Rich, myself (when I was there), your wife, and her colleagues are engaged in activities that are unvaluable or unnecessary. I see that in your diatribe against government programs, you didn’t address education in terms of how we would exist without taxes.
Regarding social security, I have family members who will survive simply because of social security. I have family members who are trying to retire and their PRIVATE retirement funds are now decimated. Social security has proven to be an invaluable safety net for them.
Government should stay out of people’s business? So Ron Paul was right and government shouldn’t have mandated that private businesses can’t discriminate against African-Americans? So the MILLIONS of people now unemployed should simply suck it up? So everyone contributes equally meaning either the poor should pay more in taxes or Bill Gates and LeBron James should now pay the same as the full time hourly worker at Wal-Mart? So Sanford is right not to accept money to rebuild schools in the Corridor of Shame?
That is wholly unconvincing. You also have yet to explain how tax and spending cuts will help us rebound from this financial crisis. Perhaps you did; we should all suck it up and work hard even if we can’t find a job…
Bart, more script from the GOP playbook? You call me thick and delusional because you don’t know how to defend your position.
Lee has repeatedly made racist and other cruel or incredibly stupid points. I pointed out that you barely take exception to this – “might want to reconsider sterilization.” How about “Lee, that is an incredibly moronic position which I find offensive.”?
My “leftist world” includes an understanding that we currently have universal health care in the form of emergency rooms. This is incredibly inefficient yet “every man for himself” conservatives who champion market based solutions prefer this approach to leveraging resources up front.
When you and your right wing buddies, including Boss Limbaugh, go to the emergency room or stay at the hospital, you pay $10 for aspirin. That helps cover the cost for the guy with the flu who uses the emergency room for his primary care because he can’t pay for services. We are paying for universal health care NOW.
Universal health care is not only a liberal concern, it is what Jesus would do – a party of family values type of thing to do. It is also cost effective given such use of emergency rooms which makes it a market economy concern. Yet we hear demogoguing and platitudes because it’s easier to bitch about taxes than to address the issue at a deeper level.
That hardly makes me “thick.”
I consider myself a conservative/ libertarian and I generally end up voting Republican. I do not listen to Rush Limbaugh and have little time for him. He is not my leader or that of many people who are close to me philosophically. If you (and you’re not the only one, it covers the political spectrum) feel like you have to hurl insults, please find one that is a little more accurate. You’ve kind of chewed the flavor out of that one.
Greg, the chairman of the RNC was licking the boots of Boss Limbaugh. He was the key note speaker at the biggest conservative gala of the year (CPAC). Elected congressmen grovel before him to apologize for crossing him. He is most certainly a leader, especially on the far right. Does this mean everyone follows him? No, of course not. But you can hardly put forth a firm argument that he is not a major player in determining the direction of the GOP especially now when Joe the Plumber is ubiquitous in GOP events.
I directed my criticism towards the right because it’s you who decry “socialism” when the government attempts any intervention into the problems facing our society. Perhaps you would be so bold as to actually discuss policy such as universal health care. I made specific points about emergency room care.
I do not understand. The right says that we are putting tremendous debt on our children and grandchildren when we use borrowed money to improve the economy to the point where it can again make money. They say we can’t afford universal health care, when it’s our children and grandchildren that we will be protecting. And yet, when it comes to trying to ensure that the earth remains habitable, well, that’s too expensive also. Hey,—wait a minute–we want to save money for future generations whose planet we’ve destroyed? Like I said. I do not understand.
Hey, the Republicans lost the election! They don’t count anymore. With the stupid pronouncements of our own governor, Sarah Palin, Boss Limbaugh, and that rabble-rousing governor from Texas who is contemplating leading his state out of the Union, people all over the country have been quietly abandoning the Republicans.
The extent of their political disaster will become obvious in the next two election cycles. Americans aren’t going to vote for rapacious banks, bankrupt automakers, torture, years more of warfare, huge military budgets, severely weakened social programs, and religious fundamentalist nonsense.
The Republicans are our very own Hezbollah, and they need to be treated as such.
So let Lee and his crowd fulminate and say all the hateful things they want! Let them call for tossing the poor into the street, deporting all illegals, shutting down the public schools and other public services, etc. Let them continue to spew their nonsense and hold their sparsely attended, non-news event “rallies” to which virtually no one with a real job and family responsibilities would ever show up.
Even if the economy continues to decline in spite of our best efforts, it’s becoming progressively more and more obvious to people that the Republicans can only be trusted to cater to their right-wing fundamentalist base and the very wealthy (who can always get their abortions in Europe if necessary).
These Tea Parties were the real Million Man and Woman March.
They were not protesting taxes.
They were protesting the philosophy behind all this wasteful spending and taxation.
With working people coming and going over 2 hours during the middle of the day, the crowds stayed constant and huge.
15,000 in NYC
12,000 in Chicago
6,000 in Cinncinnati
3,000 in Columbia, SC
Over 750 cities had rallies.
No violence. No arrests.
walterdavid,
I have been doing architectural engineering and construction throughout 30+ years, and I have been a volunteer fireman who has taken all the training classes. I have had to design the fire alarm and protection systems for buildings 4 to 20 stories. I worked as a consultant to the Detroit Fire Department on implementing CAD systems on their fire trucks of the routes and plans of buildings to which they might have to respond, back in the 1980s.
I know all about the codes, the insurance, every other reason for why fire departments have changed. I am just speaking from that inside knowledge.
Randy,
You know quite well that I specifically stated that I DO NOT ADVOCATE sterilization of welfare mothers at this time.
I mentioned it because you socialists invented that practice, along with state-financed abortions, infanticide, sterilizations of the insane, mentally retarded, and physically deformed. Those are the words of the liberals.
This country also mandated Norplant birth control for women receiving welfare.
You have no ideas to clean up the socialist welfare mess created by liberalism. I really think hard core leftists want to keep large numbers of people in poverty.
The Democrats’ economic policies are not to raise anyone out of poverty, but to pull the wealthy and middle class down. That is what the protesters don’t like. The poor had better wake up and join them.
Brad, Nice job on the radio this morning!!! We loved getting to hear you here in Memphis–you did a great job!!!
~Cousin Laurie in Memphis
Obama has his socialist agenda and Congress has their pork agenda, and they have cut a deal to not fight over money, but to just print as much as they want.
They are not fixing the economy; they are wrecking it. Obama is continuing the Bush policy of trying to re-inflate the bubble. All the TARP money is being consumed by Wall Street banks, and the failed racial mortgage programs. Nothing has been done for the homeowner, the small business, the unemployed. They have to wait for money to trickle down from these bank bailouts.
Democrats are guilty as well of being too cozy with special interest groups that undermine the well being of society. Dodd is in BIG trouble in CT and is behind republicans in polls.
The link below is for an article on pay day lenders supporting him. In CT, such lenders charge 400%!! There’s an effort to cap this at 36%. Some chucklehead pay day lender stated that if this passed, they’d stop lending money – because it’s ONLY 36%!
http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-high-rate-lenders-dodd-0418.artapr18,0,7028667.story
Here’s Piyush “Bobby Brady” Jindal’s take on the stimulus package:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44pgutD_x2s&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn
Kinda sounds like “Fred” Sanford.
Tea Party number estimates range from 262,000 to 1,000,000, depending on whether you are looking at a left-leaning website or a right-leaning website. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle–maybe half a million? That’s about the same as a season’s attendance at Carolina home football games, or a little bit more than half of the population of the Columbia area, or .16 percent of the US population (.33 percent if you use the 1,000,000 figure). 3000 in Columbia is equal to about 3.75 percent of the fans at a single Carolina football game or about .4 percent of the population of the Columbia area.
I was disturbed by the number of racist and hateful signs I saw on the news. Some depicted Obama as Hitler or as a violent criminal. Another claimed Obama was planning white slavery. A sign held by a three-year-old in Florida said We will not go quietly into that Socialist night. Are you kidding me? And what was supposed to be a tax protest expanded to become a taxes/pork/socialism/abortion/guns/immigration/bailout/ protest based on the signage.
The crowds were almost entirely white, but some thought they were making some sort of point by dressing up as Native Americans (Let my papoose keep his wampum!, or as a caricature of Kim Jong Il. More than a few signs were misspelled (schoalist, free speach).
Of course, some in the crowd were counter-protestors, and a few were there to have fun (like the girl in Seattle with the Bring Back Crystal Pepsi sign. I figure those people were also counted in the crowd numbers.
Unimpressive no matter how you look at it.
Norm, instead of sneering and dismissing real citizens with real issues, why don’t you make real effort to address some of their complaints? Do you even know what they are protesting?
The Tea Party was a lot more impressive than the tiny demonstrations of leftist kooks.
It was larger than the very racist “Not-nearly-a-Million Man March” of racists led by Louis Farakhan, and attended by Barack Obama.
It was much larger than the very racist crowd bussed into Columbia by the NAACP from all over the nation to protest the Confederate Battle Flag.
Obama’s proposals and actions in the first 30 days are the same as those taken by Adolf Hitler. So are some of his other proposals, such as setting up a Domestic Security Force of his young followers, and his promise to redistribute the wealth of whites and Jews.
Tell us, Norm, what makes Obama’s proposals different from those he is copying from Adolf Hitler?
SC Native,
You’re a complete idiot. Why don’t you get off this blog? You have absolutely nothing constructive to offer. All I hear is accusation and hatred spewing forth from your small, petty, racist self.
Just shut up, and take the GOP with you!
The only people who keep bringing up race are the leftists.
The tea parties were protesting the RACIST GOVERNMENT policies:
* jobs set aside for racial quotas
* government contracts based on race
* racist rhetoric about punishing “rich whites and jews”
* racist rhetoric of Jeremiah Wright and his disciple, Barack Obama, about “spreading the wealth around”.
* Democrat’s creation of a Racial Reparations Study Commission
* Federal requirements on banks to make risky loans to non-whites
* Mortgage programs for low-income non-whites, which created the bank crisis
* The underlying racism of white liberals who think blacks are incapable of succeeding on their own
Rich, as little respect as I have for Lee’s attitudes, I still try to respect his right to express them, even with the repugnant language he likely doesn’t understand he is using. Although the broken-record nature of his posts can be annoying, I’ve learned to read blogs on which he posts under his various pen-names with a glancing eye. Calling him names and calling on him to “shut up” or “leave” doesn’t come across as the best approach – it even smacks of taking the bait he often chums out at a prolific rate. He likely feeds on the attention. He stays locked and loaded with replies that he seems to relish spewing back almost as much as he adores touting his astounding career and stellar expertise. Perhaps a little restraint and a lot of selective ignoring would be in order.
At least HarryH (another nom de plume) is civil.
Harry, do you accept the fact that the protests last April 15 were against intrusive government, and opposed the racism within liberalism?
I am not chumming bait, nor do I fit your straw man image.
I am posing serious questions and stating the rather obvious facts.
If you cannot discuss them, you are no different than “Rich” or ‘Randy” – just more polite.
Time to stop being polite. Time for the Obama administration to fire more executives, prosecute Bush admin. operatives for torture, time to run roughshod over the Republicans in Congress and simply outvote them on everything. Time to end the filibuster; time to stop listening to the Rush Limbaugh Right.
I am truly sick of conservatives of all stripes-especially the religious fundamentalists. What I want now and what I think the country is ready to give the right-wing crowd on a national level is a decisive, definitive defeat.
The “fact” that the “tea party” protests opposed intrusive government (apart from fiscal and monetary policy) is a “fact” stretched very thinly. The assertion that they opposed the “racism within liberalism,” unless some sort of reverse discrimination against white folks is meant by that phrase is an even further stretch. There was a good amount of intrusive government protest and anger coupled with anti-tax, fair tax, tax-the-other-fellow, “don’t spend on anything but defense,” and a good portion of starve-the-government libertarianism. There was a strong anti-Obama and anti-Democrat component. Overall, the Fox media and anti-tax organization-promoted events were a hodgepodge of folks who are upset at the new direction of our new policies and who seldom whimpered as Reagan/Bush/Bush 2 ran up massave debt, but won’t admit it.
Barack Obama and the Democratic leadership are perceived by a huge number of Americans as being anti-American.
Many of these Democrats, such as Obama, Pelosi, Panetta, Emanuel, and Clinton, come from a communist background. No one in the press ever asks them if and when their views softened into some other form of socialism.
49 members of Congress belong to national and international socialist and communist organizations.
These tax protesters, along with the GOP base, libertarians, and conservative columnists and talk radio hosts, were severe critics of any deficit spending by Bush, all of it due to expanded social welfare programs like Medicare drug benefits and education.
Pelosi and the Democrats wanted deficits twice as large.
When they took control of Congress in 2007, they greatly increased the deficits, and President Bush lacked the courage to veto their spending.
The 2008 deficit will end up being as much as all the 6 years of deficits when the GOP had control of the House, 2001-2006.
The 2009 deficit will be more than all the deficits of Bush.
Obama and Pelosi have a socialist agenda which is not connected to any real problems in our society or economy.