Sometimes the things said in connection with the health care “debate” are so painfully obvious that they make me want to shout. And while I’m shouting, I wonder, Is it possible anyone doesn’t already know this?
The latest thing to get to me in this way is this bit from a series on health care reform:
Thompson’s challenge is common among small-business owners in South Carolina. Many are too busy to keep up with the complex health care reform policy proposals that Congress is debating. But they know one thing: The current cost of health insurance for very small groups is stifling their growth and hurting their competitiveness.
At this point I would scream “Duh!,” if screaming “Duh!” were not so last-decade.
Of course our current health care “system” is stifling small businesses’ growth and hurting their competitiveness! It’s helping drive some of them out of business. And it’s keeping plenty of others from coming into being in the first place. I know it’s kept me from at least one good job opportunity in the last few months. And it’s the consideration that keeps me from simply hanging out a shingle and earning a living as a “consultant” in communications. Sure, I might be able to pay the light bill and buy groceries and such that way, but I have to have medical coverage — the same sort of coverage that is simply not a consideration in other advanced countries when individuals make career decisions.
Right now, I’m pursuing a number of job opportunities. But most of the opportunities I’m seeing either don’t pay enough to pay my mortgage but have good benefits, or they pay well but the bennies are quite iffy. But one thing I CAN’T consider going forward is going into business for myself. Sure, I can pay a few bills here and there with free-lance work while I’m on COBRA. But my COBRA premiums more than double starting in December.
This strongly discourages entrepreneurship. It seems increasingly to me that the only way a person can go into business for himself is if he and his family and his employees and their families never have to go to the doctor and never will have to go to the doctor. In other words, the only way you start a business in this country is by hypnotizing yourself into believing a lie.
I’d probably be a lot happier if I were able to delude myself that way.
Anyway, yeah, the current health care situation stifles small businesses. Duh.
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America has no “health care system”, except the socialist sector run by the government. America is supposed to have a free market, where entrepreneurs and professionals can create thousands of businesses to serve the patients.
Of course the current laws hurt small business. The solution is simple – make the laws the same for individuals and small businesses as they are for big corporations, and make them all a lot simpler.
We need to be moving away from the antiquated models of people depending on their employers to provide medical insurance in lieu of wages and salaries.
We need to be moving to individual ownership of our medical insurance, just like we have personal policies for our homes, cars, and boats, unrelated to our temporary work status.
But the socialists, progressives, and so-called liberals hate small business, and they are owned by the big corporate lobbyists, so they devise complex webs of laws to make shackle entrepreneurs.
Yeah, I know we don’t have a “system.” That’s why I put it in quotation marks. Duh again.
Where is it written that America is “supposed to have a free market.” I must have missed that part in Constitutional Law. Pity I wasn’t taught by our President.
I don’t hate small business at all. I support small business, particularly with my dollars. That is one reason I support single payer government-run health care that would level the playing field for small business. I’m also not owned by anyone.
Mrs. Fenner, your education was shortchanged long before the class in Constitutional Law, if you don’t understand that free market capitalism is inextricably linked with the libertarian ideals of limited government and individual liberty which are unique to the American Way.
When I took Constitutional Law, there was no mention of a “right to health care” or most of the other projects now taken over by the federal government, outside their “enumerated powers”.
Don’t you think that if all these financial entitlements and federal authorities existed, that the legal scholars of the early 19th century, closest to the creation of the Constitution, would have been discussing them?
No, this is probably the first time you encountered that legal question.
This is going to come as a terrible shock to Lee, but I don’t believe in a right to health care either.
I don’t think in those terms. I leave rights talk to the libertarians. Me, I’m satisfied with the rights that Madison et al. came up with, and I have little patience with folks going around dreaming up new ones.
No, I look at health care from a much broader perspective than what an individual does or does not have a right to. I llok at it in terms of what makes sense for the country as a whole. And it would be infinitely better for our economy, and for every other consideration, if all the individuals in it knew that they were free to start businesses and take reasonable risks without consideration of whether their families have medical care or not.
Single payer simply makes far more sense than the current mess. We should go to that not because anyone has a “right” to it, but because it makes good sense.
Start with the question “What percentage of American are unhappy with their health insurance options?”
What you perceive as a national problem doesn’t reflect the opinion of a majority of Americans.
” According to Gallup’s data, 87% of people with private insurance and 82% of people on Medicare or Medicaid say that the quality of their health care is excellent or good. Similarly, 75% of those with private plans and 74% on government-run plans rate their insurance plan as excellent or good. ”
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122663/Private-Public-Health-Plan-Subscribers-Rate-Plans-Similarly.aspx?CSTS=alert
So, if we could deal with a couple key issues like portability, pre-existing conditions, and preventing insurance companies from ever denying coverage, those numbers would probably jump to close to 90%.
What you want to claim is some national crisis is really not true. Your opinion seems to be filtered by your own specific situation and you are projecting your issues with insurance onto the country as a whole. Unfortunately, the country as a whole doesn’t agree with you.
We have some of the best medical care in the world here. Amazing stuff. We also have some insurance companies that have used their money to influence politicians to help them fix the market.
The best fix to the insurance system should take about three days to figure out.
Another key finding from the Gallup poll if you bother to look at the results – going back to 2003, the number of Americans who are satisfied with their healthcare has risen from 81% to 84%.
There’s no trend that people think the situation is getting worse no matter how much demonizing of insurance companies has occured.
And let’s not forget, Brad, that you felt so strongly about the health insurance issue that The State newspaper endorsed John McCain for President because he… oh wait… he doesn’t really care about reforming healthcare. He’s the war guy. Never mind.
This mess of medical insurance is due to FDR freezing wage increases during WWII. To get around that piece of socialistic meddling, manufacturers offered medical insurance, life insurance, retirement pension plans and other benefits.
When the war was over, no one wanted to be the first to drop these benefits, and the unions had locked a bunch of them into contracts. So now the benefits became part of compensation in lieu of cash wages.
Small business never got the same breaks as big business, so they couldn’t afford to offer the same benefits, and big business like that.
Now, big business wants to get rid of its benefits. So they slowly moved people off pensions onto 401-k plans. Then they stopped matching the 401-k contributions. Now they want to slide the medical and pension plans onto the taxpayers, or at least have legislation force small business to have the same stupid benefits they are stuck with.
That’s what they are trying to sell as “reform”. All the Democrats care about is the power of life and death over everyone.
Of course, Gallup only polled people who actually HAVE health insurance, public or private, and there’s no information on how many of those polled pay for private insurance themselves, rather than through an employer subsidy. I wonder what percentage of the millions who can’t afford health insurance are happy with what they have, and how many who don’t have an employer’s help to pay for it think it’s wonderful. I doubt Brad does, and I certainly don’t.
Karen,
What difference does it make if someone pays for his insurance and is happy with it? I’m happier with my health insurance than I am with my auto insurance – does that mean we should have national auto insurance?
You and Brad represent a small segment of the population. Most people have insurance. Most people who have insurance are happy with it. That is an indisputable fact.
It doesn’t require a complete overhaul of the entire system in order to deal with the small minority of people who do not have insurance or have issues with their coverage. Those issues could be handled easily with simple legislation that would require private insurers to comply with some basic rules.
And then allow American citizens to purchase the same private insurance that our Federal government workers have now. That takes care of another large segment of the small minority who can’t buy insurance.
The Democratic Party loves workers and small businesses. If you are a worker or a small business owner, then the Democratic Party is the party for you. Join up, and let’s get some simple legislation passed to help small businesses get easier access to the things that can help them, such as health insurance.
A small business is awesome, because the owners are the major risk-takers and the major workers, and if they work hard with the right business plan, they can be rewarded with profits.
A big business is another thing entirely. While big businesses can be good, what we’ve seen far too much of in the past decade are the following:
1) too big to fail, requiring bailouts
2) executives taking all the profits as salary, and then complaining that their income taxes are too high
Doug, there are a couple gaping holes in your logic.
First, the poll doesn’t appear to address the cost. Premiums doubling over the past 10 years certainly wouldn’t receive an 80% favorable rating. Along these lines, many small businesses are having to drop coverage for employees for cost. BAM, those employees are no longer part of this poll.
Second, the customers who are happy are the ones who don’t need to file claims. The documentation of insurance abuse – e.g. dropping sick customers – is abundant. Of course, the customers who were dropped are not included in this poll as well.
Ignoring the tens of millions of people without insurance is to ignore a major aspect of the whole issue!
Finally, how interesting that you post evidence that the government is doing a good job providing health care! But government involvement is to be avoided?
Something not addressed enough is large businesses carrying the health-care costs of workers long retired. Detroit auto companies, for example, carry an enormous load of care for workers who retired years ago. A national system — one that allows competition — would ease that burden.
Yes, people with health-care insurance are glad they have it — until they need it. And the premiums are rising far, far beyond the cost of inflation.
The numbers in the polls of ALL Americans favoring a public option are overwhelming. Only around 30% oppose it.
I have always had great health insurance that I paid little for and still want national health insurance for a lot of reasons. I believe that in the 21st century, a country as developed as ours ought to be providing fair and equitable health care to all its citizens.
That seems like the American way to me. I have no problem with penumbrae–after all, that’s what the Bill of Rights came from in the first place–a sense that they had left out something fundamental in the main document. Society evolves. I do not believe the greatness of this country lies in being bound to the highest thought of 1776 or 1789, any more than English jurisprudence is limited to the Magna Carta.
We know more now. In vitro fertilization, surrogate parents, etc.
We have thought things through better. We no longer believe it is okay to own slaves or treat women as inferiors or chattel (at least most of us do). Divorce is generally accepted, for better or worse. It is no longer acceptable to beat your wife. We have evolved.
The Democratic Party loves workers and small businesses. If you are a worker or a small business owner, then the Democratic Party is the party for you.
It’d be nice if we did have a party supporting the worker (and another that supported free market capitalism). Instead we have two parties that care first about getting elected and then about not offending their corporate interests.
Randy,
Apparently the cost doesn’t matter to the American public. They are happy with the value they receive. The poll asked people if they were satisfied and 8 out of 10 were.
My insurance went up by $1.00 per paycheck last year. United Healthcare. The bad guys supposedly.
There’s no gaping holes in the results of the survey. People are generally happy with their insurance. You can’t get around that fact. Most people have insurance and most people are happy with it. Done deal.
When my family members go to doctors, I don’t have to fill out a single piece of paper.
I get emails with the details within days of the claims being processed and a website has with all the information I need to see exactly where things stand. I get reimbursed by United Healthcare from my medical savings account directly into my checking account quickly and automatically without filing a single piece of paper.
My company employs 70,000 people… and I have never heard anyone ever complain about the insurance. Multiple that by thousands of companies and millions of employees and you’ll see that most people are happy.
Your second claim that somehow the people who are happy aren’t filing claims is a figment of your imagination. Where did you get that fact from? Prove it. Also, tell me how many people had their insurance dropped. Is it millions? or just thousands of people (as compared to tens of millions of people who have insurance)? I’ve already said that Congress could deal with that issue without having to create a new government program.
The only gaping holes are in your
attempts to deny the truth. Obama is trying to fix a problem that impacts 10-15% of the population by replacing 100% of the system. It’s like buying a new car when the tires are worn out.
Democrats have put 16% of the workers out of work, with more to come.
They have let 30,000,000 illegals in the country, and now invite more, with promises of free medical care, more welfare, and instant citizenship.
Only 8,000,000 Americans are without medical insurance for a long period of time, so there is no problem, much less a crisis. This is about being able to deny care to their political opposition.
Obamacare IS a death panel.
Thirty million illegals have been invited in by the Democrats since Jan. 20 this year?
Doug, Obama is replacing 100% of the system? You’re doing little here but spreading right wing propaganda.
My point is that the vast majority of people in the survey will not have had serious illnesses so they will not have suffered the abuses detailed.
Big Insurance has tied bonuses to rescission. In the link below, the insurance company reps admit to 1% of policies being rescinded – a safe bet is that they are underreporting and this can only happen to people who are not part of employer provided coverage.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/12/magazines/moneymag/insurance_rescission.moneymag/index.htm
This means that as premiums continue to skyrocket (despite your personal experience this is well documented) more employers will stop providing coverage.
So you think that the 47 million uninsured and the 4 million having their insurance yanked from underneath them (and growing) when they are sick is not worth addressing?
You got your paper work in a timely manner and only a minority has major problems or don’t have insurance so what’s the big deal?
2 million not 4
1% means 99% are keeping their policies, right? So let’s pass a law that that there can be no rescission. Problem solved. No cost. Require any insurance company that wants to enroll government workers must comply. Bingo, done.
47 million uninsured? That number grows bigger the more likely it looks that Obama/Pelosi/Reid won’t get to ram their plan down the people’s throats. It is completely bogus.
Every citizen over 65 is covered, by Medicare, right? That’s 13% of the 310 million citizens. Pretty much every government/military employee in this country has insurance. That’s another large chunk of the population. Then there are the people who don’t want insurance.
Then we have 90% employment with most companies offering some type of insurance plan.
Who are the 46 million? Again, prove it. Cite a non-partisan source.
> You got your paper work in a
> timely manner and only a minority
> has major problems or don’t have
> insurance so what’s the big deal?
Randy, it’s not ME. It’s ME and the vast majority of Americans who are happy with our insurance plans.
If you want to come up with a plan that a) doesn’t affect my plan in any way and b) doesn’t cost me a dime to pay for others insurance, go right ahead.
Thoughts:
1. Two things jump out at me about those polls. First, they don’t address cost which is the main issue in the health care debate. Second, there isn’t a whole lot of difference in quality between private and public insurance.
2. I would say that I am satisfied with my health care (though I must say I’ve had no major cost for it to cover yet). But it occurs to me that I have no clue how much it costs. I didn’t choose it and I don’t pay for it. That seems like a bad way to run things if you are a “markets” type of person…
55% of Americans receive medical coverage through work not through a separate insurance company, but through self-insurance plans.
The Democrats have not even discussed the effects of their schemes on that majority of satisfied workers.
Democrats essentially propose extending Medicare from 13% of Americans to 100% of Americans and to 30,000,000 illegal aliens.
That would require a 650% increase in Medicare taxes, which is $3.85 TRILLION a year. If that increase come by increasing payroll taxes, it will require a 15% additional tax rate on wages and salaries.
Obama’s claim that “it will pay for itself” is simply impossible. Democrats propose reducing Medicare benefits by 10% a year, through denial of many procedures to the elderly. That will only pay for $50 billion of the $3.85 TRILLION in new costs.
There is a documented $50 billion annual waste and fraud in Medicare. Obama proposes to eliminate $2.3 billion of that.
Mrs. Fenner, you ignorance of the history of the Bill or Rights is astounding.
The Bill of rights was not added “due to a sense something had been left out”. It was added because those were the rights of Englishmen from the time of the Magna Carta. Those rights had been abridged by rogue kings, so they were enumerated in the English Constitution of 1689.
Shall I provide you with some history and law books to read on the subject?
The proposed federal takeover of medicine will kill business and make American exports more expensive.
The proposed 18% payroll taxes would require a corresponding reduction in other wages. How many families can stand a sudden 18% reduction of income?
and those rights had been left out of the original document, so they went back and added ten amendments.
Amendments.Where did the idea for the Magna Carta rights come from? See, there is progress in defining rights, even if, in your view in only happens once in a millenium.
I did receive the second highest grade in my Constitutional Law class at Emory Law School, taught by Prefessor Tarver Roundtree who was originally from Alabama, not some crazy Yankee lib’rul.
I also graduated magna cum laude from the University of South Carolina, Honors College, with enough credits for a double major in history….but hey,
So where did you fail to learn the basics of Constitutional law and the history of the Bill of Rights?
Your “Prefessor” Roundtree seems to have focused on something besides core knowledge.
But then we have Barack Obama, a supposed “constitutional law expert”, who exhibits an astounding ignorance of the subject, with a dismissal of the Constitution as a restraint on federal power to match his ignorance.
Apparently the subject, as taught in the last 30 years, is pretty weak.
Don’t let “Lee Muller” put you on the defensive. That’s part of the joke.
Burl,
All of us could use a little “Lee Muller” sitting on our shoulders to force us to hone our positions on any topic. We all tend to get myopic in our perspective and having someone challenge our thought processes can only make us better.
I think what Lee sees on this blog is something I also see – people who present opinions without a whole lot of facts to back them up and people who ignore the facts when they don’t sync up with their preconceived notions.
And just to clarify – I don’t agree with Lee about Obama’s birth certificate or his belief that Obama is programmed to turn America into the U.S.S.A. Obama’s just a typical politician who plays the game just like the rest of them: Lie when politically necessary, reward the people who pay the money into the campaigns, and deflect responsibility when things go badly.
I don’t know about Obama’s country of origin. I do know it is a secret, and none of you know.
I don’t know all of Obama’s belief system or his agenda, except what he has recently said during the campaign. Most of it coincides with this previous statements, which are socialist, unAmerican, and anti-American.
I do know that Barack Obama was raised as a communist, by communist parents, a communist and Muslim step-father, and communist grandparents.
I do know that Obama was a member of the Socialist Party from 1992 to 2002, and ran as a Socialist Party candidate twice, before running as a Democrat and being endorsed by the Socialist Party.
Do any of you know when he rejected any of these beliefs he expounded from 1990 to 2002?
Doug, it is a pet peeve of mine some of the people who are supposed to support and build this nation are the most subversive.
Schools, if they functioned properly, would turn out very few graduates who would vote for charlatans like Barack Obama and Bill Clinton.
Attorneys, sworn to uphold and protect the Constitution, are mostly like termites, eating away at it in order to weasel their crooked clients out of deserved punishment, or into the public treasury.
Journalists are mostly lapdogs for the Democratic Party, locked in a sophomore year time warp of unlearned radicalism and adolescent revolt against parental authority.
Lee,
The way I look at the birth certificate issue is that there are just too many occasions during one’s life where it is necessary to prove one’s birth (licenses, passports, security clearances, etc.), that I doubt Obama would have been THAT smart to work around the system with the idea that he would someday be President.
The way I look at it, if Obama came here on a visa as a citizen of Kenya or Indonesia, it would explain how he traveled to Pakistan, when it was illegal to do so on an American passport.
If he applied to college as a foreign student, it would explain why he is fighting so hard to seal his college records.
The way I look at it, if he had a legitimate American birth certificate, he would have long ago ended this controversy, instead of hiring six law firms to keep his identity secret.
I am a small business owner that provides health insurance for my four F/T employees and myself to the tune of $2000.00 a month. This is a ridiculous amount of money. Something has to change.