Another conversation with Bill Connor over on Facebook.
Yesterday, I took my son to the Cowpens Battlefield to help him put together a report he
needed for school. We’ve been there before, I as we have made trips to all the Battlefields in SC (and beyond). We knew about the gov’t shutdown, so didn’t expect the National Park building to be open. However, we thought for sure we could walk the battlefield, as we have done before. WRONG. Just like the open air memorials in DC (like WWII and Iwo Jima memorials), someone gave guidance to put locked gates on the road leading to the battlefield!! I guess there was a concern someone would “steal” a tree or piece of grass!! These open air memorials and Battlefields belong to the American people, and I’m sick of watching the stupid political games being played. No reason to prevent US citizens from visiting on their own, and this is a symptom of what’s wrong. This is a government “of the people, by the people, and for the people.” I shouldn’t need “permission” to walk a US Battlefield.
He got a bunch of people agreeing with him, with comments about “tyranny” and “denial of freedom.” But one great thing about Bill is that his friends aren’t all of the same mind, and he engages in respectful dialogue with people who disagree with him. Another commenter said:
…and yet someone (now being paid to sit at home) is responsible for supervising, guarding and maintaining these national treasures. If they need a staff when they are open, then they need to be closed when that staff is ordered home. Get the Teavangelicals to open the government and you won’t have a problem — or that issue — to complain about.
To which Bill replied:
John, I’ve been to the Iwo Jima USMC memorial and never seen anyone on “staff” while I walked around it. Very difficult to steal a 500+ ton marble statue. Same with the WWII memorial, Vietnam Memorial, and the open battlefields. I can understand the museums and places requiring Federal employees. In fact, it requires more money to come put up a ring of barrier around these sites that to allow Americans to walk through as usual. You and I know this is about the Obama Administration playing political games to make the shutdown appear worse.
Finally, I weighed in with this:
If I were in charge of the battlefield, I would definitely not allow people on it if there were no staff present. People could get lost, could have heart attacks, could set fires, could drive their vehicles onto it and cut doughnuts into the grounds. You really don’t have to think hard to think of a number of good reasons not to let people onto the grounds without someone on duty. It’s a bit silly to say “steal a blade of grass.” You sort of have to not WANT to see the good reasons in order to fail to see them.
And Bill replied:
Brad, a bit tough to get lost on the Cowpens Battlefield if you have ever seen it (and think of the real danger of getting lost at Yellowstone, etc. in the thousands of square miles, regardless of whether they are “open”). People can have heart attacks anywhere. You don’t close many public areas despite the fact people “can” set fires, etc. Warnings could be posted “enter at your own risk. violators of ………… will be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law, etc. etc.). I could go on, but let’s just leave the battlefields and national parks/forests alone. What about the friggin USMC Iwo Jima Memorial??? Every time I’ve gone to DC I’ve driven by it and walked up to it without seeing any Federal employees around. Spending more money to put “barriers” around these Monument is political gamesmanship of the worst kind.
I acknowledge I haven’t been there. I’m accustomed to battlefields you CAN get lost on, such as Shiloh and Gettysburg. But I stand behind my other points. If the nation goes to the trouble to preserve and maintain a piece of real estate for posterity, you don’t just let people wander on it without someone being around to prevent trouble, or deal with it if it arises.
But bottom line, all of this moaning about shutting down monuments somehow being dirty pool ignores the simple fact that this shutdown is completely unnecessary. And unlike so many things that can be laid at both parties’ feet, this one is entirely the fault of the side that Bill and many of his assenters agree with.
Just pass a clean resolution without a lot of irrelevant nonsense in it about Obamacare, and we don’t have to talk about parks and monuments being closed.
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The WWII memorial is an open-air concrete structure. There are no gates, there are no tour guides, there are no doors. It’s part of the landscape. It is not staffed by anyone. You can go there 24/7/365. Yet, for reasons that pass comprehension, the Department of the Interior has decided to go to the trouble of erecting barricades and posting federal agents (where none were posted before) just to put on a show. It’s indefensible.
The Vietnam Memorial is a single wall in the open air. There are no gates, there is no staff. It’s just a wall. It costs more to close it with barricades than it does to let it continue to be in existence as it historically has.
My favorite one so far is the shut down of 1,100 square miles of ocean to charter fishing boats. I’m sure enforcement of *that* isn’t going to cost anything extra.
It’s all “dirty pool” to use your words. And honestly, it’s revealing. The White House doesn’t have to do this. They’re choosing to do this. Unfortunately, for the Democrats, it’s making them look petty. Because it is.
These kind of tactics are actually hurting the Democrats, who were initially looking like the reasonable side. However, there’s no reasonableness in putting up barricades around a wall.
I’m sure we’d all love to see what a few vandals with cans of spray paint could do to say, the Vietnam memorial. If congress wants to debate about whether or not some of these memorials need staffing, that’s fine, but to whine because it’s closed when a minority of tea-orrists in congress are shutting down our government is a bit unreasonable.
If a spraypaint toting vandal shows up at the Vietnam Memorial, Korea Memorial or WWII Memorial, he/she had better hope that the Park Rangers or Capitol Police get to him before the angry veterans do…
Oh well, at least it’s not as if Government Workers are deciding whether or not the public can enjoy spaces the public owns according to whether or not Government Workers favor the group seeking access.
Oops, spoke too soon.
Bryan,
If something were to happen at the WW II memorial, like a bomb, say, who is supposed to respond? Just because you don’t see the people responsible for protecting a monument or park, doesn’t mean they don’t exist, or that they wouldn’t have to do something about any untoward activity!
Why does the city close parks at a certain time? Why can’t I walk on the extravagantly lit Cayce Riverwalk after dark?
@ Kathryn – I hope that the National Park Service doesn’t maintain a Hollywood-style SWAT team or a fleet of ambulances and paramedics. In the event of a bomb, one assumes that the Incident Command System kicks in, and utilizes available assets like DC police, local ambulances, paramedics, fireman, hospitals and doctors. Basically, the same response that would occur should the hypothetical bombing occur a block away from the National Mall instead of “in” it.
If a bomb goes off at the WWII memorials, my guess is the Park Rangers from the National Park Service aren’t responding. If a bomb goes off, I assume the same people would respond are those who would respond if a bomb went off at the Starbucks in DuPont Circle.
As for the Cayce Riverwalk, I can’t tell you why they close it; you’d have to ask them. I can tell you that the WWII memorial is open 24/7/365. They’ve decided to close it up now. Makes no sense.
The Vietnam Memorial wasn’t shut down in the 95 shutdown. We didn’t “close” 1,100 square miles of ocean.
It’s not justifiable on any level.
It’s too bad we don’t have the freedom to peaceably assemble in public places that are open 24/7. If only Thomas Jefferson had written that down on a cocktail napkin or something.
Ah, but he didn’t.
His protege Madison was the one who wrote down that stuff…
Question: The WWII Memorial is open 24/7/365 and no one is visible or in attendance when visitors are there, are they? With that in mind, how is it suddenly a concern that someone will spray paint or bomb the memorial because “no one is there” due to the shutdown? Are federal employees constantly patrollng the Vietnam Memorial to prevent vandalism? Again, if not and if no incidents of vandalism have been reported, how is it a major concern now?
As for the other parks and battlegrounds Brad mentioned, he brought up the possibility of someone getting lost or vandalism by driving a vehicle on the grounds and cutting doughnuts in the grass or setting fires. Has this been a problem in the past and if so, did the park service add personnel to address the situation? Even with park rangers on duty, at Yellowstone, people still get lost and when they do, if the park rangers are not on duty, wouldn’t the local law enforcement be available in an emergency? My nephew drives through Yellowstone every day on his way to work. I guess I need to ask if he had to change his route.
One has to suspend complete disbelief to assume that nobody in the White House has discussed a strategy of closing specific government areas in order to maximize the pain felt by citizens in the hopes that it will reflect badly on Republicans. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to be working as only the true believers are drinking the Kool Aid.
Not really. You just have to be willing to consider all the possibilities. I’ve found most people rush to the one they like best though.
Park Rangers DO patrol these sites!
No, they don’t. Park Rangers don’t just hang out at the Vietnam Memorial, the WWII Memorial, etc. More often than not, you will have volunteers (I.e. that means that they aren’t paid), who might help visitors.
But otherwise, no park rangers don’t circulate around monuments 24/7/365. That’s stupid. If a crime happens, DC police show up.
And if some redneck or drunk teenager decides to do doughnuts at Cowpens in the middle of the night, a park ranger wasn’t stopping them either, and neither would a three foot high metal barrier.
They would be there the next morning to fill out paper work, and the Cherokee police might or might not find that helpful.
Museums, shops, visitor center’s, etc. Sure, I get why those are closed because of facility costs (many of them are manned by volunteers). But large open spaces?
After a while, you get the impression that the general public is held in contempt.
Whatever. I think that what the Republicans are doing in causing the shutdown is so much worse than any games the administration may be playing with parks, that it just seems like the Republicans are talking about the mote in their brother’s eye while ignoring the log in their own.
Well, both sides got all y’all’s attention, huh?
Problem is, having millions of Federal workers idled does have huge impacts. We just don’t usually see them. How many state workers now are being paid to do nothing as they cannot interface with Federal agencies? That work will still need to be done – at 2.25+ times the original cost to catch up. How many businesses face the same issues with the Government, from the FDA, to the SEC, to the Corps of Engineers, to the DOT. Even the IRS and the Treasury. Actually the list goes on and on and on. It is just that most citizens are buffered from seeing the immediate and also long-lasting economic impacts that this is causing.
Sometimes, I get concerned about peoples’ inability to think critically outside their own social/economic/political silo.
Wake up, people. Your idiot side is showing! The Republicans in Congress could have kept the Government open while they played these stupid political games. But they let their idiot side show.
Makes me think this was probably orchestrated by Jim DeMint. It is just that stupid.
There. Sorry, I don’t usually vent like that, but really, I am struck at the short-sightedness of this nihilistic negotiating tantrum – CANNOT call it a strategy.
Just because you don’t like what the opposition is doing doesn’t mean it’s not a strategy. Rule #1 of Combat: The enemy gets a vote. The GOP is looking to leverage their control of the House.
President Obama gambled on the “make it as painful as possible” strategy in closing national parks and monuments, hoping the public would blame the GOP for everything. Unfortunately, that isn’t happening. People aren’t dumb. They know that you don’t “shut down” a rock wall. If the President had stuck to closing things that had gates and doors, he would have been fine. But they pushed it too far.
On the bright side for the President, I hear the ACA rollout is going really well.
Agreed. To the first.
I never said the fringe Republicans didn’t have a vote; I said their choice is idiotic. People behave irrationally all of the time. And so does Congress.
It is hard to argue that the Obama administration has lost its way with the third stringers. But this is about something far more pernicious. This is the demise of the TEA party. Really and truly. See overplaying one’s hand…
Wow. All you conservatives know how to do is whine, whine, whine. Same thing happened when the air traffic controllers were reduced and flights were delayed. Waah, Waah, Waah. And let’s not forget the White House tours. Boo Hoo.
Seriously guys get a grip here. This is serious stuff and all you care about is a few monuments? I worry far more about the cuts to health and safety agencies than I do closing a few monuments and battlefields. I worry about the state of the economy and the paychecks of our federal workers. We can visit the monuments once this is all done, but it may be too late for those killed in a dangerous car because the recall notices don’t go out in a timely fashion. I worry about those folks who die needlessly because a clinical drug trial has to be postponed. I worry about the mortgages and electric bills that may not get paid because a hard working park ranger is on furlough. I worry about our credit rating and the world’s economy that gets damaged as a result.
Face it guys this is absolutely no ones fault but the Tea Party conservatives. Let’s end this thing now. Perhaps the Dems could throw out some sort of bone to allow them to save face. I don’t think that’s necessary and the Dems don’t seem in any kind of mood for dealing with these thugs. Still, I value the country above some token good will gesture. But I have zero sympathy for this nonsense about keeping the monuments open.
@bud
But the Tea Party is just a bunch of fringe wackos… they have no power. Nobody believes in their philosophy (except the people who voted them into office to do exactly what they are doing).
If Boehner wants to stop this he can. He, Reid, Pelosi, and McConnell are the problem. And Obama has done nothing to help the situation. He’s played politics on this from the start.
White House finally admits that Obamacare website problems aren’t glitches. Still won’t say how many people actually signed up.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304441404579119740283413018.html?mod=WSJ_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
“Large insurers have seen enrollment figures totaling in the hundreds each, said Sumit Nijhawan, chief executive of Infogix Inc., a data-integrity firm that works with such insurers as WellPoint Inc., Aetna Inc. and Cigna Corp.
So far, many tens of thousands of people had started the application process but the number of those who were able to create accounts and shop for coverage is likely in the low thousands, according to people with knowledge of the situation and estimates by insurance-industry advisers.”
They have to sign up MILLIONS of people. That’s a couple hundred thousand each and every week. Train wreck.
Here’s my favorite ACA story so far. It’s priceless.
“A planned immigration reform rally will take place on the National Mall on Tuesday even though the site is closed due to the government shutdown. Organizers for the “Camino Americano: March for Immigration Reform” were spotted Monday setting up a stage and equipment on the National Mall for the rally which will take place on Tuesday.”
Apparently if you aren’t a citizen, you have more rights than if you are. Are there going to be any security guards at the rally?
It’s sickening how both sides of the political spectrum are do-nothing hypocrites… and the lemmings who follow each side and parrot the talking points they picked up from their specific set of biased outlets.
I hope the government stays closed. I hope the government defaults. I hope every sitting incumbent is defeated.
Brad,
Mostly disagree with you.
Some parks would need to be closed. Plenty of them wouldn’t.
It doesn’t pass the common sense test that a park that’s always open with no rangers or guards around or even on the property has to close because guard and rangers nationally are on furlough.
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
In addition, If I’m a guard that concerned about the thefts and concerns you mention, I’d volunteer and still show up and be there during my normal work shift- especially considering I am going to receive backpay.
Bottom line: if Bill Connor and the Tea Party types had their way, there wouldn’t be any such things as National Parks anyway.
Do you have proof to support your claim or is this just another example of pointless speculation? Did you find enough evidence to support your conclusion by extrapolating anything either has said in order for you to reach your stated opinion?
Is there a manifesto out there somewhere wherein the Tea Party types have taken a position that would do away with National Parks? Are we missing something here?
Right, Bart. I am a true believer Libertarian and I think its fine for the government to run national parks. Even if there were cuts to be made, they would be so low on the priority list that we’d never get to them. Start with the defense and entitlement budgets and a simplified tax code and we’re talking decades to move the line just a little.
It’s a federal government program, in which land existing within the boundaries of a state is literally or figuratively roped off and removed from the possibility of private investment or development, and “redistributed” for the use of the entire general public of the United States, theoretically regardless of economic status. Sounds socialist to me.
Look, of course Bill Connor doesn’t oppose the idea of National Parks. But that’s the larger point: the Tea Party and modern so-called “conservatives” (anything but, really, but that’s a whole other story) rail against government except for the aspects that they like and they feel benefits them specifically. When it’s something that benefits people they think are different from them, socio-economically or culturally or demographically, then they demonize those who benefit as “takers.”
Phillip, I disagree. The premise of the “TEA Party” is “Taxed Enough Already”. The question is not whom a particular program benefits directly, but WHAT should the Federal taxpayers be on the hook for. There’s always going to be some people who are net payers, and some who are net receivers, that’s just life – same as there are always going to be people who need help, and people who give help.
I support government providing essential services, and even providing “nice” services that improve our quality of life, like national parks, or ensuring clean air and water. But, in my mind it is unconsionable to allow the national debt to grow, and to pass on a situation with immense or unsustainable obligations to our children. So, we need to settle on how much it is appropriate to spend, and figure out how much we are willing to pay for. We need to stop growing the debt (yes I realize the current debt ceiling “crisis” is about money that congress has already obligated). We need to hand over the country and planet to the next generation in better shape than we found it.
Fair enough, Silence, and disagreement over “essential services” is at the heart of these types of arguments…e.g., access to affordable health care seems to me to be an essential service of the government of the richest nation on earth, right up there with access to education, etc…and yes, National Parks.
And it’s the legislative process that should continually adjust those priorities. Obamacare, passed and signed into law, WAS the compromise, incorporating as it does so many aspects that were originally GOP proposals and certainly far from the single-payer approach. But to bring government to a screeching halt and to toy with the idea of defaulting on the national debt and the consequences that would bring (far worse than even the direst predictions—right or wrong—of Obamacare naysayers), well that’s not a legislative debate about “how much it is appropriate to spend.” It’s blackmail, something far deeper, something about a divide at a deep cultural level within our country.
Silence that may have been where the Tea Party got it’s name but it has really evolved into an organization that is more about name calling than anything else. Many folks in the Tea Party are content with cutting government until it affects them. Just look what happened when the air traffic controllers were cut. The howling by the Tea Party types was deafining.
National Parks are open to everyone. They charge the same price for admission to everyone (except Seniors who get a price break that they shouldn’t get). That’s what governments are supposed to do – the big things (roads, national defense, courts) that are available to all. Anyone CAN go to a national park if they choose to. I cannot choose to opt out of Social Security, Medicare, bailouts to banks, pork barrel spending to specific congressional districts. That’s the problem, not national parks.
Doug this is where your logic breaks down. It’s not about visiting the parks, its about paying for them. I can’t opt out of paying for the parks, the border wall, air traffic controllers, foreign aid, the courts, corporate welfare or anything else that doesn’t benefit me. Anyone can pick and choose what they want to fund and say that particular thing is important.
Open to anyone who can afford the entrance fee. Fortunately, so far, Congaree is still free!
For some families, the entrance fees to national and state parks are too high! The parks belong to all of us and should be free!
The fee is minimal. $25 for a week’s entry into Yellowstone is about the best deal you can get in this country. I could provide a link but the nps.gov has been shutdown. Apparently we have to be concerned about terrorists having access to that information.
And the fee is per CAR, not per person. You can bring a family of eight people in a van for a week into Yellowstone for $3 a person.
I agree with Kathryn that the National Parks should be free. State parks too! If you fund it with my tax dollars, I should have access to use it!
Bud says ” paying for the parks, the border wall, air traffic controllers, foreign aid, the courts, corporate welfare or anything else that doesn’t benefit me.”
Securing the borders is a benefit to all people as are the courts and air traffic controllers (even if you don’t fly regularly, I’m sure someone in your family has).
No disagreement on foreign aid or corporate welfare. Let’s cut both from the budget and make national parks free.
There are things a government should do and the list is much smaller than what it currently does.
The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.
Ronald Regan? Hey, didn’t you have a chief of staff named Donald Reagan?
Sounds like…
I think Doug can offer the best insight but when I worked in IT and had to rollout a new program, we KNEW beforehand it would work and we accounted for the volume or load the system could carry. If anything, a safety margin is allowed for so a burst of activity doesn’t crash the system or render it practically useless for any period of time.
Since we have been told from day one that ACA will bring at least 30 to 45 million uninsured into the system and if the program is so popular, why wouldn’t the people responsible for developing and implementation allow for a massive response beginning the first day?
Personally I am not naive enough to believe that anything the government tries to do on a massive scale will go off without glitches or hitches but one would think that after 3 1/2 years of preparation, it would have been more successful than the miniscule results being reported. Maybe if the government had hired an American firm to do the work instead of a Canadian firm who was/is responsible for running Canada’s system, most of the problems would have been worked out before October 1.
As for the closing of the parks and national monuments, it is a diversion and an example of political theater to deflect attention from the real problems we are facing.
All Democrats and liberals should be celebrating in the streets. The Republican leadership is handing you a gift, wrapped in the finest paper, served on a golden platter, and it will keep giving for years and years. They are handing you the potential gift of retaking the House in 2014, increasing the hold in the Senate and for the last two years of Obama’s term, give him the unfettered control like he had his first two years. Christmas is coming early.
The best thing Republicans could have done was let Obamacare go into effect without a word. It will fail on its own. They should have delivered a clean CR, extended the debt limit to October 2014, and just sat back and watched. If someone is going to shoot himself in the foot, sometimes you let them.
The better fight to win is the illegal immigration battle.
Doug,
You made the point I have been trying to make all along. Introduce a “clean CR”, every Republican vote “present”, let it move to the senate and to the president for his signature. Let ownership of ACA be in the hands of the president and Democrats exclusively. If it succeeds, it succeeds and any credit will go to Obama and the Democrats. If it fails, it fails and any blame will be with Obama and the Democrats. Republicans fought it, didn’t vote for it, it was passed without a majority of public support, and now at the last minute, Republicans initiate a last minute fight they cannot win.
Last night, I thought my wife was going to leave the room when I got so angry with the idiotic Republican position on a bill they cannot defund or repeal or even get Democrats to negotiate on changes in the present or in the future. At some point, someone must walk away and if you do not have a winning hand and everyone knows it, why waste valuable time and assets by continuing to play a losing hand? Absolutely ridiculous and completely counterproductive.
The best day this country will experience is when Boehner, McConnell, Reid, Pelosi, and Obama are no longer in Washington. The worst day will be if they are replaced by others who are even more stringent and intrasigent ideologically and politically.
I’m getting tired of the “this isn’t the hill to die on” argument. At some point, you pick a hill and defend it or give up the entire war.
This hill looks as good as any other.
That’s what the men in Pickett’s Charge said…
Lee should have chosen them another one. Or just done an end run around the Federals, and headed for Washington. But he just HAD to have it out, right then and there…
Yeah, but it decided the matter. Maybe this will be the “high water mark” of the TEA Party.
Maybe we should just give Reid and Boehner pistols at dawn and let them sort this all out like gentlemen. (Or maybe we could let them pick the combatants for single combat from the army, kind of like with David and Goliath.)
Who would be the most fearsome Democratic Senator and House Republican to be facing in a pistol duel? Hmmm….
Speaking of Gettysburg, here are some pictures of folks engaging in civil disobedience (or just plain law-breaking) depending on your point of view in Gettysburg.
Pretty funny if you ask me.
80 year old Diane Feinstein versus 80 year Chuck Grassley would be a pretty good duel. Take the oldest person from each party and let them shoot it out.
Looking at the list of Senators by age, it’s pretty clear that when 1/4 of a voting body is 70 or older, you’re going to end up with a very stubborn group of people without a whole lot of interest in new ideas.
We should have an age limit and term limits.
Even scarier on the House side… Texas Republican Ralph Hall is 90 years old (32 years in office) and Democrat John Dingell is 87 with 57!!! years in office. That is absolutely insane.
These people should be put out to pasture to allow for some young blood (like a 70 year old) to come in.
Really Bart, you’re using the IT world as an example of corporate success? Remember the Zune or a host of other IT flops. No amount of testing can guarantee a smooth rollout whether it be the government or Microsoft.
Yes bud, really. Why? Because I have been in the corporate world and do have extensive experience in IT, do you? I have designed all aspects of complete information systems, wrote the programs, did extensive testing for months before actual application in real world situations. There are always some glitches but not to the extent being reported on the ACA start-up. The reason most IT flops happen is exactly the reason ACA is falling on its collective ass, you know, the results of Pi$$ Poor Planning. Ask Doug or any other IT professional about enhancing the chances of a successful start-up of a new information system.
And to compare Microsoft operating systems with an information system like ACA requires is ludicrous. Zune? Really bud? Stick to statistics or at least understand that you are comparing apples to oranges. One is the software required to operate the hardware while the other is the software required to produce a report or information oriented results. Gee, lets use iTunes to run ACA, won’t that be peachy?
Bart, I don’t need this condescending lecture about the wonders of the IT world. I’ve seen too many crappy IT systems to declare the private world of IT services immune to human failure.
As for the ACA, the important exchanges phase has only been up and running for 8 days. It wouldn’t have mattered how the rollout went the naysayers were going to find a slew of support to declare the thing a disaster regardless of the actual merits of the system. I know of many people who are already benefiting from other aspects of the law like the under 26 year old children provision, the mandate that a minimum amount must be paid for actual healthcare and the pre-existing conditions clause. The exchanges are the hard part and given the enormous volume of interest I would say that is a sign of success, not failure.
Well bud, I apologize if my comments were condescending to you. But, when you make a statement like the one you did, then you need to be sure of what you are comparing and the software for ACA and software for operating the hardware system are not the same.
And no one has made the leap of faith that the private world of IT services are immune to human failure. “There are always some glitches but not to the extent being reported on the ACA start-up.”..Bart
At the very least, read the comment in its entirety instead of overlooking the exceptions noted.
Everything is going fine, comrade! This is just a glitch!
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/obamacare-site-hits-reset-button-on-passwords-as-contractors-scramble/
It’s amateur hour.
@Bud
And what happened to the Zune? It died on the vine. That’s the difference between the private sector and public sector. Private failures have consequences. Public failures get more money thrown at them indefinitely.
In their continuing war on the public to “make it hurt” the Obama administration has closed the Foothills Parkway in TN blocking access for schools and graveyards.
They’re just going around and randomly closing roads now. Awesome.
I didn’t know much about Bill Connor till this post, Brad. Friends, go to his website and check out his article “Why the West must return to Christian roots.” Yikes! Just what we need in public life, another militarized-radical-Christianist who sees the world in Bachmann-like Apocalyptic terms as a war not just between religions (bad enough) but between the religious and non-religious, and who has an equally shaky grasp of world history. Scary, with a capital S !
When folks set their goals on shutting down the government — and the Pea Tartiers have been planning this for a long time — why is anyone surprised when a government shutdown results in a government that shuts down?
Quite so.
There is a difference between cessation from activity and engaging in additional activity that didn’t occur before.
“There is a difference between cessation from activity and engaging in additional activity that didn’t occur before.”
What about activity that you weren’t aware of because you weren’t paying attention until an opportune moment to complain about it?
Some background, BTW:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?_r=0
I’m not sure I get your point. Did the Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation execute a Jedi Mind Trick and make Obama barricade the WWII memorial and “close” 1,100 square miles of ocean?
If so, they should execute the Jedi Mind Trick and get him to do a few other things.
Actually, using iTunes to run ACA is a good idea.
It would definitely do a better job and be a helluva lot more entertaining.
From Yahoo News today:
“In Mount Prospect, Ill., Barbara Olpinski, 51, a Republican who blames Obama and both parties for the shutdown, said her family is already seeing an impact and that will worsen if the impasse goes on. She’s an in-home elderly care director, her daughter is a physician’s assistant at a rural clinic that treats patients who rely on government coverage, and her husband is a doctor who can’t get flu vaccines for patients on public assistance because deliveries have stopped.”
This brings to the forefront something that does not involve the government selectively closing parks with the intent per some park rangers to inflict as much pain on the public as possible. The question that should be asked is why the hell would health services that have been provided for patients who rely on government service be stopped when crews are hired to erect barricades at park entrances? Both sides are playing politics with the public outrage over the parks issue but not one damn word about inflicting real harm on the public well being by denying delivery of flu vaccines to health clinics. This leads to wondering what other medicines are being denied because of the stalemate in Washington.
This is no longer about us, it is all about congress and the administration and their self-serving battle inside the Beltway. If any conservative, liberal, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or moderate believes for one second you are are the reason and it is in your best interest is the reason your side is standing firm, then it would be advisable to remove your head from your nether region and face reality.
There is only one person who has the absolute authority to stop the nonsense in its tracks and that person is the president. But, when you consider that ACA is his legacy and he will protect it at all costs, only then will you understand that he is just as willing to see the shutdown continue and he is just as willing to see America default on its debt obligations as the other side is, whether an actual default is real or not. I have criticized Obama for lacking leadership ability and all he has done during the manufactured crisis is continue to prove the point that he is simply in over his head. Think about if for a moment if you can overcome your personal persuasion that he is the most pragmatic and intelligent person to ever occupy the White House and understand that this pragmatic, intelligent, and charismatic person is just as willing to sacrifice America as Boehner, Reid, Pelosi, and McDonnell and the congressional lemmings are willing to do.
I’m interested in what kind of “absolute authority” Obama supposedly has to end the shutdown. If you’re referring to the debt ceiling, however, there is indeed the question of the 14th Amendment. I agree with some that if it comes to that, Obama should invoke the 14th to pay the debt, and invite the Republicans to impeach him, which they won’t be able to keep themselves from doing. That will make it pretty clear that the whole issue is about anger and retribution for the far right, not policy, and most assuredly not fiscal sanity.
Absolute authority is not granted by the Constitution or any other written laws I am aware of but, when there is one person who commands the highest position or office in the country, by fiat, when it comes to determining what actions will or will not be taken in the political arena, that person does retain absolute authority. In this instance, Barack Obama does have the final word on what concessions will or will not be granted to anyone when it comes to his legacy legislation, ACA, and if he is willing to negotiate on the debt ceiling or not. At this point, those are strictly political positions and yes, Obama does have absolute authority to decide what actions he and the senate will take.
Absent written laws addressing political decisions, that authority lies with Obama, not Reid or Pelosi and by his actions to date; Obama has exercised absolute authority over all decisions made that are contrary to the original provisions in ACA. It was Obama who approved extending the deadline for one year for business, not Reid, Pelosi, Boehner, or McConnell. It was Obama who approved exemptions for certain companies, corporations, or other entities for adherence to the rules and regulations contained in the ACA bill that was passed and became the law of the land. And to put it into perspective, Obama does possess absolute authority over any bill presented to him for his signature unless it is passed with a super majority or if he vetoes it, congress overrides the veto.
As for the debt ceiling, yes, he could go against the 14th Amendment and be subject to an attempt by Republicans to impeach him but it is doubtful either scenario will ever come to fruition because first, Obama would have to violate the 14th Amendment and second, he is too savvy to serve up an opportunity to Republicans they could actually run with that could gain traction. But, when one considers that in the end, if negotiations on the debt ceiling are to take place, they must first have his tacit or explicit approval.
But, you already knew the point I was making about Obama and the final decision being in his hands on bringing the fiasco to an end or letting it play out to his political advantage.
The person who shut down our government and who refuses to reopen it is Speaker John Boehner. If he would allow a vote on the clean CR that the Senate sent him, it would pass and then immediately be signed by President Obama.
The CR the Senate sent to the House funds the government at the low level requested by the House Republicans. The Senate’s CR is a major compromise. President Obama and the Senate prefer an actual budget at a higher number, and such a budget could be achieved through the official process called “conference.” Republicans say no to “conference,” no to an actual budget, and no to a higher figure.
There is nothing more that the Democrats can say yes to. The Democrats have already said yes to the CR process instead of the “conference” process, yes to a CR instead of a budget, and yes to the low number instead of a higher one. It’s time for our republican democracy to work. Which means it’s time for the people’s house to vote. It’s extremely improper for Speaker Boehner to deny the House a vote.
Speaker John Boehner, Vote On This Bill.
Michael,
Back in the good ol’ days during the week of Sept. 23 or thereabouts , according to The Hill, hardly a bastion of conservative thinkers, “The Washington Post reported earlier this week that Reid urged President Obama to abandon discussions about setting up a bipartisan meeting of congressional leaders this week. Reid’s spokesman declined to comment on the report.”
It was also reported that Reid had steadfastly refused to talk to Boehner because it would signal a sign of weakness.
Same day, different time:
“Send us a clean [continuing resolution], a clean debt ceiling [bill]. That’s the path forward. There’s no need for conversations. We’ve spoken loudly and clearly, and we have the support of the president of the United States,” Reid told reporters.”
No Michael, it is not just Boehner, it is everyone inside the cloistered beltway who must shoulder the blame and the person in charge is not Boehner, it is Obama.
No Bart, it is just Boehner.
Michael,
O.K., keep believing. When, no, if you ever stop and really allow yourself to consider all aspects of the circus in Washington, you will realize the ringmaster is not Boehner, it is Obama.
Bart, I recognize a coup d’etat when I see one. Think, my friend, what would Reagan have accomplished if O’Neill never allowed any votes?
Michael,
When comparing Reagan and Tip O’Neill to Obama and Boehner, it simply does not equate at any level. Reagan and O’Neill were leaders and understood the importance of responsible governing and effective leadership; Obama and Boehner possess none of their attributes and both are prime examples of Peter’s Principle. Both have risen to their levels of incompetence and the nation is suffering for it. P.S. – add Pelosi, Reid, and McConnell to the list.