This week’s Tweet about ‘Latinx’

Frequently on this blog, you see me take a stand in defense of the English language — such as with my regular rants about the verbification of such perfectly-good nouns as “impact.”

Earlier this week, I took a moment to stick up for Spanish. Since I see that it attracted some attention (1,083 impressions), I thought I’d share it here — although you gringos may not be very interested.

Here was the Tweet:

I almost didn’t post that, because I didn’t want to start an argument on Twitter, and I suspect (but have no data to support the assertion) that people who actually use and like “Latinx” would easily make a Top Five list of People Most Likely to Get Offended.

I only posted it because, well, it was in a headline in The New Yorker. And come on, people, if you can’t trust The New Yorker to respect language — especially English, but other languages as well — then you can’t trust anybody. All is lost.

Anyway, it provoked no argument, which was a relief. In fact, it even picked up a few likes — including from folks who are not on the rightward side of any culture wars over language or gender or ethnicity or such.

Of course, being opposed to “Latinx” should be a pretty noncontroversial position, given that only about a fourth of U.S. Hispanics have even heard of the term, and only 3 percent use it. Or at least, that was the case last year. And personally, I haven’t noticed much movement toward wider acceptance since then.

So, back to where I started: Why on Earth would The New Yorker use it, and not ironically? You’ve got me…

45 thoughts on “This week’s Tweet about ‘Latinx’

  1. Bryan Caskey

    I only took a few years of Spanish in high school and one year in college, but I don’t think very many (if any) Spanish words do not end in the letter X, which is pronounced “eh-kees,”

    Accordingly, I don’t even think you can easily pronounce Latinx in the Spanish tongue.

    Reply
    1. Brad Warthen Post author

      Nor in English.

      I guess, in English, you’d say, “la-teenks”…

      In Spanish, it gets super-complicated. For instance, different Spanish-speaking cultures use X differently. As I recall, when I was a kid in Ecuador, we use it the Mexican way, pronouncing the name of that country “meh-hee-co,” to use English phonetics, and the name “Xavier” as “ha-bee-air.”

      But a knowledgeable Cuban friend of mine recently told me that’s just the Mexican way, and most other Spanish-speaking countries say it some other way (I forget how at the moment).

      Bottom line, it’s completely unworkable, and completely unnecessary. Spanish-speaking people are more than fine with their gendered words — you can’t speak the language without them — and English-speakers have “Hispanic” and “Latin” if they need them.

      Of course, bottom line, folks in this hemisphere who speak Spanish often have little interest in being lumped together with people from other Spanish-speaking countries anyway. So a lot of them aren’t wild about “Latin” and “Hispanic” to start with, much less a crazy substitute…

      Reply
  2. Bryan Caskey

    I think most people say Latinx “Latin-Ex” which sounds like a heartburn medication for when you’ve had too many tamales.

    That’s also a non-Spanish pronunciation, though, right? The problem is that (in my very basic understanding of of Spanish) the unit of sound being represented here, “-inx” — does not exist in Spanish.

    Reply
    1. Bryan Caskey

      I guess the other way you could pronounce Latinx is to say it in the way that it rhymes with “Drinks”. But I’m pretty sure the sound made by the “inks” in Drinks doesn’t really exist in the Spanish language.

      Again, I didn’t do that well in Spanish, so I could be wrong.

      Reply
  3. Barry

    today the SCOTUS announced their short awaited Texas decision.

    Question:

    Could a state craft a law, in the spirit of the Texas case, where private citizens could sue those that practice a minority religion, but at the same time also prevents state officials and state agencies from enforcing anything related to the law. The law also states that it is exempt from federal court review or oversight.

    At the same time, the law also exempts all state officials from liability from the highest officials in the state down to county clerks and county and town officials with regards to the law.

    and finally, the law specifically states that citizens that bring the lawsuit are exempt from having to pay any damages, or face any legal retribution if they lose the lawsuit.

    Reply
  4. Brad Warthen Post author

    Uh-oh… Look at the ad this post caused Adsense to put on my blog.

    This kind of thing can put a happily-married man in an awkward spot: No, dear, I was not looking for any such services on the Web, really…

    By the way, I’m pretty sure the person in the picture is more accurately described a “Latina” than as a “Latinx.” But that’s just a guess on my part…

    Reply
    1. Bart

      Is “Latinix” a noun, pronoun, proper name, or what? Is it supposed to describe a certain subset of the Latino community? Or is it just another addition to the long list of alternate identification words that are convenient for the ones who are confused over who they really are?

      I am beginning to believe that anyone who comes up with some of the nonsensical terms and/or names are fortunate that breathing is an autonomic function otherwise they would be in serious trouble.

      Reply
  5. Barry

    another story Friday came out about judges which proved a point I made earlier in the week

    Several Trump judges have made some interesting statements in their rulings/orders about vaccine mandates.

    Judge Terry Doughty spent time laying out- without any criticism- the claims of a doctor who falsely said that the COVID vaccines were not effective in preventing transmission of the disease, that there was no reason for people under 50 years of age to get vaccinated, and that the vaccines had killed over 50,000 people.

    Judge Doughty took the claims of the doctor – Peter McCullough, a cardiologist with a penchant for some odd statements and appearances on right wing websites- seriously but the Trump judge never mentioned the fact that the doctor’s views on vaccines are so outside the mainstream that the health care system that once employed him went to court to get a restraining order against him because the good doctor kept associating himself with them in media interviews even after they had terminated their relationship. It seems his former employer had told him to stop affiliating himself with them in interviews and other appearances but he refused. So that got a court order against him.

    There were other examples mentioned. Including examples of how Trump judges have made it a point to dismiss scientific arguments by trying to insert their own scientific statements about vaccines , an oddity that isn’t routine.

    Georgetown University health law professor Lawrence Gostin is quoted in the story saying that in these examples, the judges “merely substituted their own opinions for those of scientists. That is not following the rule of law or precedent in these situations.”

    Reply
    1. Barry

      Because the subject was a news story on Friday and the term Latinx wasn’t and hasn’t been.

      There is no other place to discuss current events on here except to make a post about it in whatever thread topic a available.

      Reply
      1. Brad Warthen Post author

        As I think I’ve mentioned a few times here, I’m not all that interested in discussing the latest “news” most days. Sometimes something will happen, and get reported, that interests me. But it usually won’t be the latest thing that everybody’s yelling at each other about. I’m more than fed up with listening to the same talking points from the “two sides,” over and over and over, with no one being persuaded, and no consensus reached…

        Reply
        1. Barry

          I understand that and it’s your blog.

          I happen to think no one is persuaded about anything though, including milquetoast topics, or even the weather. So personally I had rather discuss topics that are current topics of the day that are actual political stories.

          In fairness, those get dozens and doEns, and sometimes hundreds of posts. Others not so much.

          But again, I realize it’s your blog.

          Reply
        2. bud

          I appreciate than many topics, especially abortion, are not going to result in any common ground. But, and I can only speak for myself, some topics are suitable for fact-based discussion. One such issue is inflation. Is this a short term phenomenon that will go away once the supply chain issues are resolved or, is this a more long term problem that requires major intervention. I dunno. There are good arguments on both sides and this should be a topic that can be addressed without undue passion. That kind of topic would land somewhere between the utterly uninteresting Latinx post and the minefield abortion issue.

          Reply
          1. Brad Warthen Post author

            Well, you may be right. But I have two things that make me hesitate to write about it:

            1. It’s about money. Therefore, it really doesn’t interest me. Consequently, I don’t have any points I’m anxious to make about it. If I did, I’d share them — you know me. But perhaps other will, and they can carry on an enlightening discussion of the subject, now that you’ve suggested it.

            2. I think maybe you’re a bit overly optimistic in seeing this as a topic immune from the current insanity in our politics. I predict it would break down this way: The Trumpistas will eagerly seize upon it as a horrible, horrible thing is entirely the fault of that horrible Joe Biden, who is usurping the power that in a just universe would be wielded by their lord and master. Folks toward the other side of the fence will insist that it’s no big deal, and try to quickly change the subject, for reasons different from why I change the subject when money comes up.

            Maybe I’m wrong, though. Maybe it will be a great topic. Let’s see…

            Reply
            1. Barry

              Inflation is a worthy topic but the folks bringing it up on national shows, radio – always – as you predicted- blame Joe Biden.

              When the occasional caller brings up the fact that inflation and supply chain issues are also gripping many countries around the world- regardless of the politics of the President/Dictator involved – the host trying to blame Joe ignores the fact this is a world wide issue right now.

              As aggravating as inflation has been, the stock market is doing quite well and those that want a job have no problem having employers bid on them for a good salary right now.

              I suspect some of these folks are mad because they took terrible advice and dumped some of their market holdings when Biden took over and now regret it.

              As my favorite consumer/financial info guy – Clark Howard- says on the radio: Don’t let your political biases cloud your judgment with respect to your pocketbook. (He just says it nicer)

              Reply
          2. Bart

            Good points bud and worth a response from someone who is actually in the financial field who knows and understands the influences on the economy. I am referring to Mark since he is a financial planner and therefore, presuming with the premise he is knowledgeable about the impact the current issues like inflation, supply chain delays, oil imports in lieu of producing in the US, reduced participation by the workforce in the job market, and other influences the average layperson is not familiar with. I think these come into play when Mark is advising clients on their financial future. Apparently successful as a financial planner to me, Mark would require a more in-depth understanding of market influences than anyone else posting about it.

            Mark, not looking for stock tips but solid, non-partisan, pragmatic, and informed opinion on what you see coming based on the actions of the Fed, the current housing market, and the forecast for rising interest rates. No politics because just IMHO, we have had enough political partisanship pushing agendas that ultimately are not necessarily in the best interests of our country.

            I know we have our differences on issues but on this one, I do respect you and what you have to say if you are so inclined to reply.

            Reply
            1. Mark Stewart

              Wow, Bart, is that directed at me?

              I do hope that I have always provided all my clients with insightful analyses and nuanced observations. On occasion, they even listened to me. That’s just a little joke. But I did learn from many amazingly talented instructors and mentors. I try to pass that along now, myself.

              Anyway, I try to offer the same here on Brad’s blog – but people are more apt to reject my offerings; and that’s okay. They are all just opinions and moral musings, and everyone is entitled to their own views.

              Reply
              1. Bart

                Yes Mark, directed at you. Should have made it a separate post instead of including it in the reply to bud.

                The times ahead are going to be trying for both sides and we need some pragmatic and realistic answers to the myriad of questions that confront us on a daily basis. Realize no one has all the answers, in fact, we have very few who are not opinionated, self-serving bloviators at this point in history when cogent and effective answers are most needed.

                Whether one is interested or not in the financial aspect of the present and how it will affect the future, if this issue is not addressed with clarity, the wealthy will become wealthier, the middle class will shrink, and the less fortunate financially will fall further behind. I don’t advocate for socialism, just for a fair chance for all to do better or to have the opportunity to live a better life. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in a new 4-bedroom home in an upscale neighborhood, it can be anywhere where one is comfortable and can live a reasonably decent life. One doesn’t need or require a new vehicle or designer clothes to be successful, it is all relative to one’s situation in life.

                I hope you will offer your thoughts and evaluation of what is coming I think much sooner than later. It will be interesting to find out if your response is in line with my experiences with similar past situations.

                I do pay attention to your thoughts and musings and do find I agree with many and disagree with a few. That is why I am asking you, someone who can offer a well thought out reply to the query. Not political, ideological, emotional, or anything other than an analytical conclusion.

                Reply
                1. Mark Stewart

                  Okay, well then… such a big responsibility. Not sure I can give the topic its due. I think you share the view that we have not had inflationary pressures for so long “everyone” has forgotten what it feels like. I do believe that inflation is a feeling; that’s what keeps it rolling along. Yes, there are analytical metrics, but I believe these are the tail not the dog. The dog is the calculation into future situations that people factor into current considerations. Inflation is a pandemic, and we are in one now.

                  Partly it is that many sectors of the economy have long faced pressure against any pricing power gains, whether for materials or labor. The odd raw material or two has faced what I would call market pressure as various financial players have sought to ripen investments. However, in general, nearly everything has been held to minimal gains for decades really (except for financials, biotech and tech). Now, with Covid everyone all at once has felt the “need” to reprice. And that means we all face other parties repricing as well. So, it’s just a mad dash.

                  My personal view is that the Fed should have intervened in the early fall, but was too cautious. Unfortunately, especially with inflation, the system tends to need to get a shock to remove people’s attention from the inflation feedback loop that is occupying minds everywhere. That shock often hurts and causes the economy to stagger for a quarter or two. I get why world governments didn’t want that to happen now, but we have to be mindful of the danger of contagion; once the ball starts rolling it is infinitely harder to slow it down. I would have rather seen the Fed make a move now, but they have opted to wait. The facts that rents have only risen a little above their average this century should be a calming metric; inflation is widespread but not universal at this point. It is still mostly short-term assets that are inflating.

                  Politically, I am amused that those most resistant to vaccinations are also the ones who appear most in the gripes of inflation hysteria. I suspect that we are going to need to re-find our way to a shared understanding of “reality” before we will be able to agree on the significance of current events.

                  That’s my 2 cents on inflation.

                  Reply
                  1. Barry

                    Lots of corporations are also reporting some incredible profits.

                    I get the feeling that they are taking advantage of the situation and are blaming “inflation”

                    Reply
  6. Bryan Caskey

    Virginia Attorney General-elect Jason Miyares (who is of Cuban descent) and will be the first Hispanic to hold the office in the state — said the word Latinx turns off Latinos.

    “By insisting on using the incorrect term Latinx, progressives are engaging in a type of cultural Marxism, a recast of societal norms,” he told POLITICO. “Latinos don’t use the term — only upper-educated white liberals who hardly interact with the Latino community. I believe that every time they use the term Latinx, they lose another Latino vote.”

    Reply
    1. Brad Warthen Post author

      Oh, I suspect they lose more than one…

      It would be one thing if we referred to the tiny number of Latin people who actually want to be called “Latinx” by that term. That might serve a useful purpose, in that it would give you an additional bit of information about that person — just as “Latina” and “Latino” do. It wouldn’t communicate something quite as sharp and clear as the a and o do — you might interpret it a number of ways — but it would communicate something, and that’s what language is supposed to do.

      But it’s completely wrong to apply it to all Latin people, when 97 percent of them weren’t in the market for such an innovation, and don’t appreciate it…

      Reply
      1. Barry

        Ahh Jason Miyaers, he’s the incoming AG that voted as a House member against HB 276 in Virginia that requires hate crimes committed due to a victim’s sexual orientation, gender, or gender identity to be reported to the state police.

        Seems Jason has an issue with gay folks are folks who struggle with their gender identity. How very Conservative of him.

        I don’t think anyone is voting because someone used such a term.

        If the incoming AG is correct, that doesn’t say much for his respect for much of anyone if he really believes people are voting for Conservatives because some so called Progressive (or college professor) used a term they don’t like.

        I mean whose doing that? What person is sitting there thinking, “Heck,I was going to vote for so and so but they mentioned that term so that seals the deal for the other political party for me.” If there is anyone worse than a 1 issue voter, it might be the “he/she used that gender neutral term I don’t like so I’m voting for the other lady” voter.

        Sounds like a good story for a partisan campaign rally. But it’s not likely working that way. I sense other issues are at hand.

        Reply
    2. Mark Stewart

      I work closely with a Hispanic woman who says she prefers the term to broadly describe the vast cultural and linguistic world of Spanish speakers. She agrees it is unusual at this point outside of the academic sphere (and among the over-educated), however. But things change with time. Like actresses referring to themselves as actors. Such shocking modernity.

      I don’t know if it should be a commonly used “word.” I think like with all this words and terms that those to whom it relates should be the ones to define how they wish to be refered to – and everyone else should just honor those choices. Whatever they are.

      Reply
    3. JesseS

      Late to the party, but they lost me at “Cultural Marxism”, since that term will always be joined at the hip to Hitler’s “Cultural Bolshevism”. Frankly, any modern American politician should be ashamed of using that term.

      If Marxists cared about culture, at least the orthodox Marxists, the CIA never would have hammered “cultural freedom” as a talking point, and funded stuff like the Congress for Cultural Freedom (honesty, one of their truly smart moves when it came to combating communism –at lest until it exploded in their faces and LBJ killed funding because it fueled “the CIA controls the media” paranoia), during the Cold War.

      “Cultural Marxism” is just a term from the post-Cold War 90s, when the right wanted to marry liberalism with socialism (like always in far-right conspiracy circles) and give themselves a nice, easy fight that could devolve into moral panic and witch hunts, while even scoring a few fringe seekers who were vulnerable to orthodox Marxism (hence the weird far-left/far-right, contrarian, “question everything” overlap on Russia Today’s viewership).

      As far as “LatinX”, it’ll either stick or it won’t, and it will probably end up like Kwanzaa and Pan-Africanism –that is, a steadily forgotten thing. That’s all up to Spanish speakers, who might “totes cringe” because they’ll associate it with white, progressive Liberals, or ignore it because it’s clunky (and Lord do progressive Liberals love adding clunky, awkwardness and observed procedure to things, while trying to smash rituals they don’t, for the sake of their own comfort), or maybe it will be associated with social mobility, or different from the hegemony and explode in popularity. Who knows? I don’t have a crystal ball.

      Then again, maybe “vosotros” as a singular will become a thing, like the young cashier who called me “Y’All” at the checkout yesterday. Again, who knows?

      Reply
  7. James Edward Cross

    We lost Michael Nesmith yesterday … Micky Dolenz is the last member of The Monkees still with us. I always liked the band’s music. It didn’t matter they were “manufactured;” they fought and took the reins into their own hands to be something more. Lots of favorites but if I had to choose my top 5 they’d be “You Just May Be the One,”, “The Girl I Knew Somewhere,” “Daydream Believer,” The Door into Summer” (title from the Heinlein SF story!), and “Randy Scouse Git.”
    Fun facts: Nesmith wrote “Mary, Mary” (Paul Butterfield Blues Band) and “Different Drums” (Linda Ronstadt and the Stone Poneys), “Some of Shelly’s Blues” and “Propinquity (I’ve Just Begun to Care)” (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band). He’s considered a pioneer of country rock, created the first music videos, and was the executive producer of *Repo Man*. His mother invented Liquid Paper.

    Reply
    1. Barry

      Micky is on Sirius radio a lot, or he was recently. He use to host his own show periodically and show up on other shows on the 60s channel. I always enjoy listening to him. He was close to so many big groups.

      Micky and Peter Noone of Herman’s Hermits tell great stories. Noone has his own show on Sirius on Saturdays.

      I still can’t get over Cousin Brucie retiring. His Cousin Brucie’s Saturday Night Dance Party-Live Was fantastic. He was one of a kind and a true link to the 1950s and 1960s era of music. He knew every one of the groups and singers of that era (and they knew and loved him) and had great stories to tell about all of them. He was so nice and loved his listeners. That type of radio died when he retired in 2020.

      I am glad i got to listen to him. My wife and i would often listen to his Saturday night dance party show. He would often have on those stars still living that were big in the 60s. Of course there aren’t as many of them now but folks like Tommy James, Gary Puckett, Johnny Rivers, and Micky would be on there from time to time.

      My dad told me listening Brucie was like listening to a radio show in 1963 playing all the hit records. Im glad i got to experience that even though that was a little before my time.

      Reply
      1. James Edward Cross

        He had a sense of humor. After the demise of the First National Band, he formed a new band. He called it … the Second National Band. And when their first album was a disaster, he titled the next one *And the Hits Just Keep on Comin’*.

        Reply
        1. Barry

          When he would host on Sirius, he sounded like he had been doing a radio show for 40 years. He was a natural.

          Some of the former singers they have fill in host aren’t too comfortable with it- but Micky really is a natural at communicating with people. He is a very talented person.

          Another guy who is great as a guest host is Rick Springfield. Obviously, he’s a “rocker” guy but he’s also very comfortable behind the mic.

          Peter Noone is very good too but he’s very different. The stories that guy can tell about the Beatles, Elvis, etc – let’s just say he saw a lot of stuff.

          I love the behind the scenes stuff that folks like Micky reveal when they host. They often tell you who the real talent was in a lot of those bands- without putting down anyone.

          Reply
          1. james Edward Cross

            From Wikipedia:
            Barry Freedman told him about upcoming auditions for a new TV series called The Monkees. In October 1965, Nesmith landed the role as the wool hat-wearing guitar player “Mike” in the show, which required real-life musical talent for writing, instrument playing, singing, and performing in live concerts as part of the Monkees band. ….

            Nesmith won his role largely by appearing nonchalant when he auditioned. He rode his motorcycle to the audition, and wore a wool hat to keep his hair out of his eyes; producers Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider remembered the “wool hat guy” and called Nesmith back.

            Once he was cast, Screen Gems bought his songs so they could be used in the show. Many of the songs Nesmith wrote for the Monkees, such as “The Girl I Knew Somewhere”, “Mary, Mary”, and “Listen to the Band” became minor hits. One song he wrote, “You Just May Be the One”, is in mixed meter, interspersing 5/4 bars into an otherwise 4/4 structure.

            Reply
  8. Barry

    BTW- the Kentucky tornadoes were incredible. Just devastating. The video is just awful.

    If anyone is so inclined, the Red Cross is available for donations.

    Worth noting in the political realm

    Rand Paul ALWAYS votes against relief for victims in other states (including for Hurricane Katrina, Sandy, Maria, Harvey) & even 9/11 first responders. He has said he thinks FEMA should be disbanded

    Thomas Massie, the vocal GOP bomb thrower from the most conservative wing of the GOP has also never supported a federal relief package. He has been a vocal opponent of federal assistance referring to such assistance in derogatory terms. Massie voted against aid for Texas after Harvey and most notably voted against aid for Sandy victims.

    In fairness, Massie has been criticized by a few Republicans in the past for trying to block federal aid right after disasters. David Perdue of Georgia famously called him out for his hypocrisy a few years ago.

    Today both Rand Paul and Massie immediately and publicly are begging the federal government for assistance, which of course Biden would approve even without their requests.

    hypocrisy

    Reply
  9. Barry

    Breaking this weekend.

    California Governor Gavin Newsom has asked the California AG and legislative leaders to craft a bill allowing private citizens to sue people who make ghost guns or purchase parts to make them as well as those who sell assault weapons.

    This is a great idea.

    The law will mirror the Texas law but with regards to the guns mentioned above.

    Love it More like it to come.

    https://apple.news/A8vi4vvKbSjuDEWPo1khByQ

    BTW- California has already announced they are working to make it easier for people from other states to come to California receive abortion services. A task force has been created to develop ways to make it easier for those traveling to the state.

    Some of the suggestions so far includes covering the full costs of anyone traveling for these services including food costs, accommodations, fuel costs, and miscellaneous expenses. Other suggestions that appear to be in development is publicizing abortion services more heavily across the country to former service providers and to help California providers set up offices near transportation venues. Other possibilities are also being discussed.

    Reply
  10. Bart

    “I understand that and it’s your blog.”

    Therefore, I will continue to post, post, post, post, and post more irrelevant items just to prove I can and you can’t stop me. In other words, it isn’t your blog anymore and I don’t have to respect your foundational reasons for starting it in the first place.

    No wonder the participation has dropped from what was once a large and very diverse group of posters to the drivel that everyone is already aware of from one individual.

    Reply
    1. Barry

      Nah.

      The abortion topic that Bryan posted (and I appreciate him doing it) generated over 200 comments. Of course that’s not from 200 people. LOL. But it generated a lot of discussion.

      I mean you aren’t required to read my posts. At least I hope you aren’t.

      You don’t like me. I don’t like you. I think we’ve established that fact and can move on. No one else cares.

      Reply
      1. Bart

        I never said I do not like you since the fact remains, I have never met you in person. I reach conclusions, not judgments about individuals when I read their comments if I have never met them. When the offer was made, you outright rejected it. At least I was willing to meet you halfway, even more, and in a group setting of posters on Brad’s blog. I would have driven to Columbia. I offered a hand, but you rejected it and slapped it away. It will not happen again. Point proven that closed minds never dare to explore outside their cave of shadows.

        After reading your reply I was a little intrigued, took a couple of minutes to review the abortion topic and did a quick count of the 200+ generated comments. Surprise, surprise, surprise. You were the winner with approximately fifty of the comments, Bryan had approximately forty-nine, and Bobby Amundson had thirty-two. I discounted Bryan’s and Bobby’s because they had some variety and were not bloated.

        Of course, there were others who commented but not with the proliferation attributed to you. You are correct about one thing, I do not bother reading the majority of your comments, not enough time in the day to absorb regurgitated information already on the internet, news – print and broadcast.

        To close this out, will provide a little information about my approach to life and the differences between us based solely on your posts. My circle of family, friends and acquaintances is fairly large and diverse. Some are Trump supporters; others are Biden supporters. Some are left, liberal, conservative, far right. Christians, atheists, agnostics, and other religious or non-religious affiliations are among friends and family members. A couple of family members have had an abortion and even with my objection to abortion, still love them and always will. Each one has their own perspective on life and even though I may not agree, I will not cast them aside because of differences. My family includes a Chinese daughter-in-law, Hispanic nieces, niece married to an African American, Samoan niece and nephew, and other ethnic representations including Native American on my father’s side. My circle of friends includes as many African Americans as Caucasians. We have discussions, debates, agreements, disagreements and at times, they are heated but when they are at an end, we shake hands and remain friends. Life is too short to choose to throw them away.

        Reply
        1. Barry

          As I said before, I don’t meet people in person from message boards. That applies to anyone whether we agree 100% of the time, or 0% of the time. Plus, I don’t live in Columbia.

          Doesn’t nearly every family have a diverse set of members at this point? I mean not to compare but I guess I take it for granted that my African American nephew makes our family different. It seems to be typical.

          As I have said before, my aunt had an abortion – one she never regretted – she only regretted the situation that caused her to make the choice – but my opinion on her medical choice is and was irrelevant. It wasn’t my decision to make. It was hers, as it should be.

          I use to be what some consider “pro life” but my perspective changed after my family faced personal circumstances that were not welcome but personal circumstances can change perspectives and long held beliefs. So the abortion topic is an important one for me and my wife.

          While I hope no one ever has to choose abortion, I prefer to assist, guide, help them so they don’t have to. The last thing in the world I would ever want is for the government, judges and lawyers- and stinking, fickle politicians to step in the way- knowing full well that many of those same lawyers, judges and politicians will always have access to abortion services- and some will choose it while publicly saying something else.

          I had a trump supporter at my church, in 2018, tell me that Christians support trump and only evil people support people that don’t like him. This man was a retired attorney and had been a good friend for almost 15 years. Beforehand, he was rational, kind, and good natured. But the changes in him were astonishing. I had helped him with projects around his home. I never spoke to him again. I wish he was the only one I had personally encountered that had sunk that low. It wasn’t.

          When trump announced that Mexico was sending us their rapists, I had a few family members and then friends who I thought I knew go to very dark places and finally felt like someone was saying what they felt, despite some of them working alongside Mexican immigrants for years and pretending they were friends.

          I don’t remain friends with people that think I am evil for not supporting the politician they happen to idolize at the time, especially when that politicians spends as much time spewing hateful rhetoric (and being cheered on by a political party) as Trump did.

          These are not merely difference of opinion situations.

          That said, we clearly see life differently. We have different values and perspectives. That’s a good thing. Thankfully, we have the freedom to make different choices and the people we know have the freedom to make different choices and live their lives they way they choose.

          Reply
  11. Barry

    Wow

    Those text messages Liz Cheney read were pretty interesting.

    I read the stories where Fox News avoided the topic until almost noon today and then only briefly mentioned it.

    I assume the orders from Fox management were to avoid the topic and then spin it if necessary. That’s what they have done since then.

    It offers that glimpse into a man who would have done anything to hold onto power if he could have had just a little more help.

    Also had a good laugh today watching CSPAN when Republican Marjorie Greene called all Democrats communists on the House Floor and Democrat Jamie Raskin, who has always been great with quick comebacks replied to her that “we aren’t communists” and then added something close to “the guy you and your friends idolize is the one that loves dictators and communists and he told them so”

    It was a terrific, quick response to Greene who is not the smartest tool in the shed. Yes, she was there and heard it.

    Reply

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