OK, I finally got around to watching one of those longer clips of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright — specifically, one that contains the "God Damn America" part. I’ve been told many times that I just needed to get the context to understand that what he said shouldn’t be understood in the stark way that I have understood it.
The Rev. Joe Darby, in his op-ed piece on today’s page, suggested the same point:
… America is still focused on a few ten-second sound bites from Rev. Wright’s 30- or 40-minute sermons
Anyway, I watched this six-minute, 48-second clip — and it doesn’t change a thing. "God Damn America" still means "God Damn America." There’s no part in which he says, suggests or even hints that he didn’t really mean it, or that he thought America was in danger of damnation, and he wanted to save it. No, if anything, it’s clearer that he meant what he said.
But I think some of the well-meaning folks trying to explain all this to me are actually misunderstanding me. Start with the assumption that I somehow lack information. Aside from the above quote suggesting I need the context of the remark, the Rev. Darby also says:
Dr. Wright’s critics also need to learn more about the historically black church and its clergy…
I surely don’t claim to be an expert on the black church, especially in the presence of Joe Darby, who lives it. But no one has told me anything about the black church, in the course of "explaining" Mr. Wright to me, that I did not know. Sure, maybe something is lost in translation, but so far I’ve seen no indication that that’s what is at work this time.
But what Mr. Wright said is clear. The six-minutes-plus of context that went before "God Damn America" was exactly what I would have guessed went before it. Essentially, it was a review of history, mixed with a small dollop of political partisanship (the comparison of not-so-bad presidencies with the current one). Short version: The government has upheld oppression of black people during the course of American history.
Folks, I’m an American history major, and I’ve lived in this country for most of 54 years. What part of the rather sketchy overview in that sermon do you think I didn’t know already? If I’d been sermonizing, I could have added a lot to it — including the fact that the blood offering of the Civil War, as horrific as it was, seems to have been an inevitable sacrifice to expiate the sin of slavery. And I would have said the evil didn’t end there, nor could it, there being original sin in the world, and no one of us since Jesus Christ born free of it.
But I wouldn’t have said "God Damn America." Not in a million years. For me, the point of bringing up evil is to try to overcome it — as I believe two people Mr. Darby mentions (King and Bonhoeffer) were trying to do.
Sorry, but I can’t accept that the Rev. Wright was saying "things that challenge America to rise above its sins of prejudice and greed." No, if he’d said America was in danger of damnation, or headed straight thataway, rather as Jesus said to the Pharisees in the example cited by my colleague Warren Bolton this week, that might have been seen as a challenge, perhaps even a well-intentioned warning. (Personally, although he had more right, being God, than anyone else to do so, I don’t remember Jesus ever damning anything more sentient than a fig tree.)
But Mr. Wright didn’t call on us to do anything. Instead, he called on God to damn America.
One last point — Mr. Darby seems to assume, as have other writers, that those who say things like what I just said are against Obama. Well, I’m not. But just because I like a guy, I’m not going to sugarcoat a problem. As I said, Obama gave a brilliant speech, but he did not succeed in separating himself from what the Rev. Wright had said. He couldn’t. If he had disowned him at this point, it would have been crass opportunism, and beneath him.
So this guy I like — Obama — has a problem, one he can’t get rid of. Just as another guy I like, John McCain, is way old — nothing he can do about that, either.
I would suggest that if anyone out there supports a candidate and thinks that candidate is perfect, he should look a little harder. Nobody meeting that description has come along in two millennia. Thus endeth my sermon for today.
WooHoo! Brad hit a homerun.
Voting for Obama is like buying a car without kicking the tires or having the oil checked. Americans have this love affair going on with Obama and are not seeing the absence of substance. He is a very UNaccomplished and UNdistinguished man despite many opportunities to make a mark; most obvious is his failure to challenge the hateful and racist speech of his mentor, Jeremiah Wright.
Apparently Obama has such strong emotional ties to this racist hate-mongering preacher that he is unable, or unwilling, to acknowledge that Wright’s influence is inappropriate and indeed harmful.
If the American Citizens elect Obama despite the knowledge of Wright’s influence over him it will be an acceptance, and a tacit blessing, of the union.
Actually, Janet, I like Obama. My point here — which I thought I made clearly enough (read the last three paragraphs), but this subject seems fraught with miscommunication — is that liking Obama is insufficient reason to try to explain away what the Rev. Wright said.
First, Rev. Wright shouldn’t have said what he said, and Sen. Obama has said so.
Second, as for context, consider the Southern Baptist rule that wives are supposed to graciously submit to their husbands. Not just submit but graciously. This concept is what Rev. Wright is talking about. Not only are blacks supposed to suffer through racism, they’re supposed to ask God to bless the government that makes them suffer.
Third, Rev. Wright, to my ears, clearly explained that governments come and go. That Roosevelt’s America is a different America than Reagan’s America and Clinton’s America and Bush’s America.
Fourth, what Rev. Wright said was clearly meant to be the opposite of God Bless America. Perhaps God Curse America would have been a better opposite, but it doesn’t have the right ring to it. So what he is saying is that people listening should decide that some of the Americas should be reviled, cursed, declared as evil, whathaveyou, while other Americas should be thought of with high regard, saintly, whathaveyou.
That’s what Rev. Wright is saying, if I look on it very generously. Some of our governments should be judged as being evil, like Hitler’s Germany and Stalin’s Russia, he’s saying. He’s not saying that our grand experiment in republican democracy — a government of the people, by the people and for the people — should go to hell.
Finally, I agree with Sen. Obama that Rev. Wright should not have said what he said.
I’m with you, Brad, until you let Obama off the hook.
Preacher says “God damn America” in my church, context be damned, he sees me not again and faces a petition to have him disrobed.
Had Obama had the character people desperate for a charismatic leader have projected onto him, he would have done just that.
Jeremiah Wright is only one of a hundred people just as bad who are close to Obama.
Al Qaeda sympathizers.
Louis Farakhan and other haters of whites and Jews.
Weather Underground bombers.
Chicago politicians caught taking bribes.
Real estate hustler caught paying bribes, and selling the Obamas a mansion for a fraction of its market value.
I only read the first paragraph before I wrote this comment. It’s the american way.
I understand you’re a history major, just like Rice is a student and history and didn’t learn a thing, but in this case you might want to look at the old testament, specifically the writings of the prophets, before reviewing a sermon.
You think the civil war was fought to end slavery? What was reconstruction for? So much for the history major part of your premise.
Well said Michael.
Brad, as pious as you are, I’m surprised you can only see this in political terms. He was speaking of “damn” in biblical terms as in God would not be pleased. He referred to the Bible immediately after saying it.
Weldon, I bet your church is not a fundamental fixture in the black community. Many whites want to dismiss the context as ancient history. The grandparents of black high school students today were lawfully treated as 2nd class citizens. This is very relevant context to many African-Americans whether you accept it or not.
Out of 20 years worth of sermons, there are a mere handful that were this extreme – if there were more they would be well publicized by now. This indicates we are seeing only a portion of what he preached.
On Youtube, I found a sermon in which he led his congregation in being subjected to an aids test. This is an important social and religious leadership function because in 2005, 50% of all aids cases in the US involved blacks. This is an example of the social gospel Obama cited.
There is no evidence Obama turned to Pastor Wright for political gain – some 20 years ago. As for many of us, choosing a church is a highly personal choice. Distancing himself from Wright is also a highly personal issue. If I felt compelled to leave my church, it would be a very difficult undertaking. Yet, McCain seeks out Pastor Hagee, a man of God who dismisses Brad, I, and other Catholics as cult members. McCain did so for purely political gain and he gets a free pass.
My point is not to excuse Wright for words that betray God’s love, but to bring context to a complicated issue that so many have wanted to simplify. His words don’t create the animosity that is felt in the black community, his words often reflect it. I am disappointed that there seems to be an unwillingness or even worse, an inability to consider such a possibility among so many whites.
Brad is race-baiting again. Why not blog about Hagee’s comments regarding the Catholic Church and his subsequent endorsement of McCain?
Or why not blog about Falwell’s and Robertson’s comments on 9-13-01, and the Republicans constant pursuit of their support and their followers’ support?
Because Brad is a race-baiter, that’s why.
Here is the Gospel according to McCain supporter, Pastor Hagee:
Hagee’s version of “America’s chickens coming home to roost” – blaming America for incurring the wrath of God via Katrina. After using “GD”, a similar statement made by Pastor Wright was what resulted in the most criticism of him.
Hagee explaining how Catholicism is a cult – he uses the terms The Great Whore (widely used derogatory term for the Catholic Church) and the “Roman Church”.
Hagee taking a strong political position regarding immigration and denounces Harry Reid as not supporting troops in his sermon. Infusing politics into his sermon is acceptable because it’s a republican position, I guess.
All the while, Hagee has been getting from Caesar what is Caesar’s to the tune of a million plus per year – AMEN!
Again, McCain actively sought out this man’s endorsement for purely political gain and he gets a pass. Obama faces a highly personal dilemma, “rejects and denounces” the offensive words of Pastor Wright and his judgment is called into question. Alex, what is a double standard?
Brad – I just read your blog post that followed some obviously good thought on your part after my op-ed. You said in your response, “I don’t remember Jesus ever damning anything more sentient than a fig tree.” I try not to throw out Bible quotes, because a lot of folks use a verse or two the same way the media sometimes uses short sound bites – to prove a point. This time, though, I’ll break my rule! Read Matthew 23 – the entire Chapter. Jesus didn’t mince words in dealing with a problem in what was a theocracy, and if “damn” means to call for ruin or condemnation with regard to the powers that be, then Jesus did a pretty good job – especially in verse 33.
Randy, you’re right, my church is not a fundamental fixture in the black community.
It’s a United Methodist Church. Most of our members are white, but the district superintendent is black.
As I wrote previously, more pointedly, there is NO context that excuses “God damn America” being preached from a pulpit.
I don’t buy the “It’s OK; he was preaching in a black church; that makes it all right” argument. Preaching hate to counter hate has no proper place, and the Bible teaches turning the other cheek, not hate.
Wright violated the third commandment (that nitpicky little thing about not taking the name of the Lord thy God in vain) from the pulpit.
He urged God to damn the country that gave him the freedom of religion and freedom of speech to say what he said.
Had he said “God bless America, especially black America, and even white America, in spite of America’s racial sins,” I would understand.
Again, the wrong thing to say is what Rev. Wright said.
The right thing to say about America’s struggle with its promise of freedom is Langston Hughes’ poem, “Let America Be America Again.”
The poem speaks about a variety of people’s experiences. It begins with:
“Let America be America again.
Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)”
And it concludes with:
“We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain–
All, all the stretch of these great green states–
And make America again!”
Ok Weldon, where’s your outrage about Robertson, Falwell, and Hagee preaching that 9-11 and Katrina are the fault of homosexuals and abortionists and America’s acceptance of this?
Wright was clearly using “damn” in biblical terms just as these white pastors had done. Blaming Americans for the death of Americans is acceptable as long as you don’t use the word “damn”?
BTW, read my 2nd to last post again. I did not condone his words because they were said in a black church. I attempted to give context to a complicated issue.
Again, Rev. Wright should not have said what he said. He went for shock value and landed in hate speech.
Here’s how I’m figuring what he was trying to say:
God: God is God, and God works through nature and people.
Damn: Damn means to declare as evil for all eternity. Who’s going to do the declaring? People.
America: Rev. Wright did not mean America as a country. Rev. Wright meant America as ____’s America, the way we say Hitler’s Germany or Stalin’s Russia.
Brad and Weldon have suggested that Rev. Wright meant America as a country, and I disagree. Although I’m not sure who Rev. Wright wanted in the blank. Roosevelt for the Japanese internment camps during WWII?
Langston Hughes means America as a country, a government, a people, and an idea.
Lindsey Graham says, “America is an idea.” & “No group owns being an American.”
OK, with all that discussion then, what I figure Rev. Wright was trying to say is, “We should declare before God that ____’s America should be forever judged as evil.”
Hmm. I still don’t like it. It reminds me of what some people say who want to continue to fly the Confederate flag from the Statehouse grounds — they put Lincoln in the blank!
1st things first brad, the context of pastor wright’s sermon was not wholly of his own thinking. a significant part of the context came from former ambassador edward peck. he paraphrased ambassador peck on a key point that the ambassador made in an interview, and called that portion of that particular sermon a “faith footnote”.
it’s time to give all this a rest. many relevant as well as many irrelevant points are constantly made, but this is truth: those who (most probably being caucasion) now want to revile pastor wright probably thought nothing of him when these comments were made in 2001. these same people probably did not even know that pastor wright actually made these comments in 2001. these same people probably ignored other pastors like john hagee, jerry falwell and others who made similar comments. for those who may have become aware of these comments any time between october 2001 and october 2007, they probably simply dismissed the comments as some idiotic (insert racist term here) preacher who no one (most probably caucasion) cares about. so, why are his comments now significant? because they make a (black) presidential candidate look unpatriotic to be associated with pastor wright. as unimportant as those comments were (to those taking offense) back in 2001, they are still unimportant today because the self-examination that pastor wright suggests that this country needs to do is still undone (and is conveniently not included in your blog, brad).
and if there is any doubt as to whether or not this country is subject to damnation (is this a better way to say it brad?), you have to look no further than the foundation (the constitution) upon which it stands to read the writing on the wall. for in that constitution lies a tenet that rebelliously flies into the face of the command of the so-called God that most americans say they revere, worship, etc. and that tenet that the so-called founding fathers gave to you (because i don’t accept it) is freedom of religion, i.e. worship whoever or whatever you want, whenever and however you want.
for those that believe the Good Book, refamiliarize yourself with Exodus 20:2-6 and 1 Samuel 15:22-26, and please study so that you will be familiar with what those scriptures actually mean.
the chickens are coming home to roost, check the book of revelations for the truth of the one world order.
pastor wright spoke the truth, whether anyone likes the way he said it or not.
guilt by association. folks are looking for a reason to vote against a black guy. it makes people feel justified when they use another man’s words to define another person. let’s be honest the majority of people in this state are racist. racism will end when people discover the true meaning of jesus christ.
First of all, Jesus never damned anything. His soul purpose in coming to this world was to redeem mankind from their sins. He did not condemn the because the world is condemned already. Also, there are several scripture verses that tell the followers of Christ to pray for and be obedient to all those who are in authority; i.e. the government because God himself established it. I enjoyed your blog Brad. I had a letter to the editor on Monday that used several scripture verses to show that what Pastor Wright did was wrong. Thank you.
Jesus said this @ Mark 16:16:
“He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Pretty strong words. I’m choosing to believe them.
In yesterday’s [The State] editorial pages, R.D. Fitzsimons wrote:
“Should we ask God to damn our country…? Above all, should any of us accept such thoughts as trivial and non-binding? ”
My God is a powerful God. And for a “man of the cloth” to issue those words “GD America” in ANY context, and FROM the “pulpit” so flippantly, one has to wonder for which side he is recruiting. It is appalling.
The Rev. needs to read a little here:
“…these things has thou done and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.
Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces…”
***Psalms 50: True and False Religion
Verses 21 – 22 KJV ***
The Rev. may be lucky to have God get a hold of him, rather than some of the rest of us.
Hey Brad, I usually do not like most of what you write in your editorials, but with this blog, I have to agree. I am a born again Christian white man who is married to a black woman. I still plan to vote for Obama if it comes between him and John McCain. My wife is in support of Hiliary for her own reasons. Keep up the good work Brad.
Great review of the racist bigot that Obama uses as a mentor! Any clue as to his thoughts that are influenced by that nut? It is the same old rant! Blacks are disproportionately in prison, disproportionately stopped by police, disproportionately represented in this or that area of our society! What a crock that way of thinking becomes! An example is the stun gun incident when a trooper used the stun gun against a black woman who obviously had no respect for the law, law enforcement officers or the public! Her attitude is pervasive in the black community with no respect for anything or anyone! If I were a law enforcement officer, I would have a hard time deciding not to be aggressive in such cases! It is not the law that I must not use all the force at my command to prevent injury or death to myself or someone else! The sheriff’s deputy that was first shot and then killed the drug dealer is accused of using excessive force. He should have just tried to wound that thug! Wrong, his only mistake was not shooting that thug first to protect himself and the other officers present! It is time the courts, the legislature and others back law enforcement 100% in all but the most aggregious cases, damn the naacp, jesse, al, lonnie and others!
White folks don’t have a institution that can be directly compared to the “black church”, except maybe that thing that we call “extended family.” Stuff happens within families and we can’t distance ourselves but so far from it.
God is love.
The devil is hate.
Take your choice from above…there is no in between.
Tim 4:3 “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
PS…the false prophet presents himself in many forms…so be very, very careful. The false prophets can quote scripture, dress in robes, or be elected to office. They can be white, or black, male or female.They can be republican or democrat.
And they are among us always.
Zeke, thank you (and Lee)for buttressing Obama’s point about the racial tensions that exist. I’m guessing you didn’t intend this with your selective representation of the black community, but your angst is understandable as Obama explained.
We can cite the same scripture to justify different conclusions. My point is there is clearly a dynamic in the black community that whites may have a hard time comprehending. A well meaning professional who eats breakfast at the Summit can not sympathize with the challenges facing people of color living in the poor urban areas.
None of these previous bloggers nor this blog’s namesake can state with certainty that his “damn” comment was not in the context of some biblical judgment. Yet, you choose to ignore any possible context and assume the worst. Many also choose to ignore similarly divisive and ungodly comments from white pastors.
The controversy about Rev. Wright has not gone away nor do I think that it will go away.
You folks can quote all the bible you want and you can never get pass the fact that Rev. Wright said “God damn America”.
I can forgive the hate and raciest things that he said and attribute it to “consider the source”, or sticks and stones etc. A lot of people say a lot of things every day that might cause you to stop and wander where they are coming from with a certain comment. They even say things to call attention to themselves.
Rev. Wright preached what the congregation wanted to hear or they would have kicked him out of the church when he first started his hate speeches (or sermons if you will).
Rev. Wright has a personal problem with the country in which he resides or he actually is trying to brainwash others that would be followers of his sermons to also hate this country. Now. This is a real problem with Rev. Wright and the fact that Obama has been a student of his teachings.
You and yours may politicize the gospels if you want. ..you will not be the first nor the last to do so. That is your privilege. I would argue that the politicization of the black church is exactly why the black family is in the position it is in. Need I quote the statistics?
But I find it reprehensible that you would equate the judgment of Rev Wright with the judgments of Jesus. Twist it any way you want, but those that preach hate are instruments of hate…and that is so far from my Christianity that I cannot conceive that intelligent people would seek to justify his actions.
But you have that right. And I have mine…I cannot know the man’s heart…but I do know his tongue.
Joe, Thank you for the reference to Matt. 23. I just got thru reading it. Perhaps the Rev. Wright would have been in a better position if he had just used modern, but parallel examples, and made that the text of his sermon. Then, again, he might have been fussed at more. I simply cannot get to upset about a pastor, or a person, who responds to the travesties he had rehersed in his sermon with that kind of response. My hope, however, would be that he could eventually move from simply railing at America, to trying to fix this land, or at least that part immediately around him. And he may well have, I don’t know the man. I do know that I have friends with whom I disagree politically, and religiously. They know it, and I know it. It doesn’t keep us from being friends, nor do I care to disavow them. I would think less of Obama if he were willing to disavow a long time friend because of these differences.
If black preacher only realized that they instill hatred in black people and that causes, unlawfulness, crime and the feeling that the country owes them something. God did not promise a life of good. History reveals that there has always been unfair treatment to certain sigments of society. We can’t change history. Most likely a few years from now the Mexicans will be yelling the same thing. What will we owe them? Anyone lucky enought to live in this country, should thank God for that blessing every day he lives and pray ardently that He will continue to bestow his blessing upon us. AMEN
Brad, why do you want Obama to disengage himself from Reverend Wright when you make no such demands on John Mcain to disengage himself from Hagee and Parsley. Would you actively seek and accept the endorsement of someone who refers to the Catholic church as a whore religion. If Obama had been on the stage accepting an endorsement from Farakhann, you would have been besides yourself. Since, I imagine you have no positive view of Farrakhan, what is the difference. Would you accept the endorsement of someone who actively calls for the destruction of a major religion (Isalm) and someone who actually believes America was created to destroy Islam. Would you refer to that person as a spiritual guide. And don’t use the lame argument that he sat in the church for twenty years, he married the man and his wife and he baptized his children. Unless you have proof that all Reverend Wright did in his more than 35 years of preaching was get up in the pulpit and spoke in twenty second sound bites damming America, then that argument holds no water whatsoever. He does not hate white people, he dislikes what the Country has done and in many respects continue to do. His church has white members and is the largest congregation in a predominately white demonmination. His demomination certainly has no problems with him. Why should you. What Reverend Wright says resonates with many (not all) black people-and I would suspect if the truth be told, this one include the majority of black people working at the State Newspaper. Now, I know that is a frightening thought for you. Finally, below are the words of a song asking why should God bless America. These words did not come out of Obama’s church but from a values voters conference held in Florida earlier this year. This was a Republican event. The questions is being asked but the song suggests that maybe God should not bless American because America has turned its back on God. The exact thing Reverend Wright was saying, except he does not sugar coat it and comes at it in a direct fashion. This government has dones some awful things to people, that is a fact-That Reverend Wright calls this country out about its awful deeds does not change the fact. This country can only a great future when it faces up to its past.
Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back
On everything that made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sin and heal our land
The courts ruled prayer out of our schools
In June of ‘62
Told the children “you are your own God now
So you can make the rules”
O say can you see what that choice
Has cost us to this day
America, one nation under God, has gone astray
Why should God bless America?
Shes’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land
In ‘73 the Courts said we
Could take the unborn lives
The choice is yours don’t worry now
It’s not a wrong, it’s your right
But just because they made it law
Does not change God’s command
The most that we can hope for is
God’s mercy on our land
Why should God bless America?
She’s forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land
(Reading from 2nd Chronicles 7:14) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land
Holly, thank you for making my point. We have white extremist pastors spewing hate toward homosexuals and Catholics in God’s name and there’s minimal response. When the extreme preaching comes from a black pastor you decry the politicization of God. Do you even consider this double standard?
A lower socio-economic 65 year old black grandfather who as a young adult was not allowed a college education, was confined to a one room school building with 50 classmates, and who was not allowed to vote is simply the victim of black politics? My son’s grandfather is the same age. He grew up in a middle class culture where he was encouraged to vote, received an excellent high school education, and went to an excellent college. You suggest the resulting life experiences of the families of these two grandfathers would be the same were it not for black politics? The recent past (only 2 generations past) is not a major factor in the disparity in the conditions between the races?
Fran, who is talking about owing the black community anything? We are talking context. We are talking cumulative anger that still exists, whether you want to acknowledge the validity or not. In his speech, Obama, while decrying the negative effects of welfare, spoke of providing a fair education for black students. Equal opportunity is not the same as quotas and handouts.
We can dismiss the disparity between races as ancient history or merely the consequences of poor decisions made in the black community. Or, we can address the problem and the perceptions with honest discourse and acceptance of responsibility on both sides with a focus on creating a greater equality in educational opportunities.
Maybe some of you should get into therapy real quick. People are what they want to be. No more. No less. Your are the master of your fate.
I do not hate anyone. Never have. Never will. I feel sorry for a lot of people that I think need to come to grips with their life and find a happier outlook. Maybe the cup could be half-full instead of half_empty and they could simply find a way to look on the positive side of life.
Life does not deal blad blows to any individual unless you happen to be a victim of some event out of your control.
A good christian tries to uplift his fellow man and is rewarded for the accomplishment. I truly believe that if you are always finding fault with others without first looking in the mirror is one of our great faults.
I do not hate Rev. Wright. He hates himself (or it seems that way) unless he is an actor on the stage of life for self fullfillment.
You people keep talking about history. What has eventually happened to all the dictators of the world? Not a pretty picture.
Look closely at Obama and study his past that is available to all that want to not lie to themselves about that man that would be president.
I mailed you a piece a couple of weeks ago I wrote called “A Poverty of Dignity” which I think is tremendously substantiated by listening to the 6 min. 48 sec. clip of Reverend Wright. The full piece is so much worse than the news clip. It is full of hate, raising indignation without even attempting to offer the slightest solution. I had previously been leaning toward Obama but I simply cannot vote for anyone who would tolerate this type of hateful, harmful behavior. Neither can I vote for anyone who makes up the preposterous stories that Hillary comes up with. I have not voted Republican since 1976, but this will be the year. gene
No, Randy, you miss my point. Hate, is hate…no matter who it comes from.
Sure, one can bring up other preachers…but in all these cases the candidates did not attend services with the offender for 20 YEARS!!!
if you want a list of white, hate talking false prophets…let me know and I will send you one. But Rev Wright and those that cover for him are the conversation of the day.
Hate…is hate. Jesus loved his foes…he did not hate them.
For those quick to wag their finger at Obama, are you willing to do the same with McCain?
“Mr. McCain, who has been on a steady search for support among conservative and evangelical leaders who have long distrusted him, said he was “very honored” by Mr. Hagee’s endorsement. Asked about Mr. Hagee’s extensive writings on Armageddon and about what one questioner said was Mr. Hagee’s belief that the anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union, Mr. McCain responded that “all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee’s support.”
No? What’s the matter hypocrite?
Oh I get it now…
Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell can blame American for bringing 9-11 upon ourselves, but since they support the GOP and John McCain has kissed their rings, then its all ok.
Any other preacher who gets caught up in the heat of the moment of his rant can do the same as long as he bows down the the altar of the GOP. If he doesn’t than he must be a narrow minded loon and any of the thousand people in his audience are just as loony.
The only ones who care about Wright are the media who are beating this dead horse and the hypocrite bigots as recent polls and surverys have shown that this whole Wright ordeal has done ZERO to reduce Obama’s popularity or ratings either within his own party or across party lines in the general population.
So can by my tally, Obama has one questionable man of the cloth story while McCain has three. Who is showing the questionable jusdgement now?
Maybe McCain better quit while he’s ahead as its the only time he’ll beat Obama at anything.
All the black militant sophists and deniers and their white fellow travelers can spin the hate, the vicious hate, of darby, wright, bolton and the other “angry descendants of the atlantic slave trade” but no sane white person believes that crap for a second.
Haters like darby and wright, cloak their hate of white people under the guise religious teachings. Pure crap.
Their teachings contribute the reasons why two white girls at college (North Carolina, Auburn) were brutally murdered by cold hearted negro thugs, and why rape and murder of whites has exploded as a threat to whites everywhere.
The video of hate has opened many eyes to the threats whites daily face from the hostile black militants.
My reaction to this situation is one of sadness. As an 80-year old white woman, I have lived through some of the history, the Rev. Wright is damning. My personal opinion is that the Civil War was a travesty. My ancestors were dirt farmers, I grew up in the rural South. Yes, black folk had it very hard. So did most of the white folk in my community. I feel that the worst thing done to the blacks is not seeing that they had proper education. Thankfully, for the last 60 or so years, this has not been true. I have many black friends with whom I share a mutual respect and love. I am proud of the ones who have taken advantage of the opportunities available and are doing well. I do not understand why there is not more activity on the part of successful blacks such as Rev. Darby to institute plans for helping others take advantage of their opportunities. I have personally tried to encourage and help, financially, some of these as I see that as their best hope. The sad part is that rhetoric such as the Revs. Wright and Darby use does not help at all. It stirs up both races instead of trying to promote healing and progress. Until we can come together and make positive plans, the problem is only going to fester and grow. As a final comment, thank goodness that in my church we study the Bible and pray for everyone. I do not see the church as a place to study social issues. We need to get beyond this.
Those of you who would lie to themselves about who Rev. Wright in under his skin I would say to you that he is first and foremost a black man probably hating the color of his skin. Otherwise, why would he have all the hate in his heart against what happened many generations before he was born.
You cannot turn back the clock and change anything that has happened in history concerning all that was suffered by slavery.
You can either join and work for change and acceptance and put all the past behind you (simply because you cannot change what has happened in the past) or you can keep on the blame game and never rise above what you consider your unfortunate life due to what you consider being born into slavery because of the color of your skin.
The color of your skin has nothing to do with what you do with your life. MLK said it was not the color of your skin but your character that was the measure of the man.
Obama is not the black man that will lead you to the promised land and change the hearts and minds of all the people to accept him as their leader. Rev. Wright has told him for 20 years that you are not worthy because you should hate your fellow man and “God Damn America”
Whoah, where is all this going? Yuck. I thought we were supposed to talk about the meaning of the statement.
Rev. Darby, thanks for pointing out that this is a teachable moment, and thanks to both Mr. Bolton and Rev. Darby for pointing to Matthew 23.
I suggest that those interested in continuing the conversation about race in America check out “The Miner’s Canary.”
“Like the canary’s distress, which alerted miners to poison in the air, issues of race point to conditions in American society that endanger us all.”
Finally, Sen. Obama has made it extremely clear that (1) Rev. Wright’s comments were wrong, and (2) We should talk to each other respectfully as adults as we figure out what we can do to improve race relations, partisan relations, generational relations, economic relations, etc.
Sen. Obama can clearly be his own complete person with his own ideas based on his own unique experience.
Can you read some of this junk here and elsewhere and still have your own opinion? Of course you can.
OK. So a bird in the mine will alert the workers of poisen and toxic chemicals.
What has this got to do with people of all races getting along with each other?
Obama may be of mixed race and hate the fact that he is not white, but that does not make him a presidential candidate.
He needs to join the human race. Maybe then we can believe he does not hate white people and “God Damn America”.
Joe Darby is a shameless apologist for the hatred and radicalized anti-USA faction in black america today.
Darby says I need to learn more about the black church and clergy. Somehow I get the distinct impression that whatever it is Darby wants me to learn is going to attempt to legitimize Wrights’ brand of hatred and vitriol OK and understandable. If Darby thinks this putrid spewing is OK, that says a lot more to me about Darby than it does about Wright.
I already know what Wright is. Darby is now exposing what HE is. David
While religion is an integral and important component of culture, the cynic in me finds Reverend Wright no better than a lot of ministers who are supposed to aid their congregation’s members in attaining salvation but fall prey to doing whatever it takes to assure their own material comfort. Whether it’s selling indulgences, preaching a liberation theology, or building a mega-church through tidings of good-news, these guys have figured out a way to extract a king’s ransom from their flock. Exhibit A in Wright’s case is his million-dollar, 10,000-square-foot mansion in a gated community. His message went over well enough to earn him a considerable nest egg.
It reminds me of Reverend Ike and the host of white preachers who seem to prosper while tending their flock. Remember Tammy Faye and Jim?
But there are plenty of other reasons not to vote for Obama: while he delivers a good line, he has no record of legislative achievements. All talk, no action.
I’ve criticized Joe Darby before because he’s enmeshed in the sort of progressive politics that does little to assist the folks he represents. Where he’s wrong is in believing that success can be achieved through politics. Success, like the salvation he seeks for himself and his flock, is achieved through personal striving, through individual achievement. Someday it may dawn on him that Democrats only want his vote and know that they can get it cheaply.
Mike: here’s a list of Obama’s “lack of action” that passed the senate:
S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests.
S.AMDT.3073 to H.R.1585 To provide for transparency and accountability in military and security contracting.
S.AMDT.3078 to H.R.1585 Relating to administrative separations of members of the Armed Forces for personality disorder.
S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.
S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy.
S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.
S.AMDT.923 to S.761 To expand the pipeline of individuals entering the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields to support United States innovation and competitiveness.
S.AMDT.924 to S.761 To establish summer term education programs.
S.AMDT.2519 to H.R.2638 To provide that one of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5 million or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee owes no past due Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty.
S.AMDT.2658 to H.R.2642 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2692 to H.R.2764 To require a comprehensive nuclear threat reduction and security plan.
S.AMDT.2799 to H.R.3074 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3137 to H.R.3222 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3234 to H.R.3093 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3331 to H.R.3043 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
Randy, which candidates for president are attending the churches of Robertson, Falwell and Hagee?
None? Until McCain starts going to any of those churches, you have no point, because not denouncing an endorsement from a preacher and raising your children in a preacher’s church are hardly equivalent acts.
Michael, America is a country, a concept and two continents, yea, even a hemisphere.
Had the Rev. Wright meant _____’s America, he should have said so.
Furthermore, “dman” in a religious sense — let us do hope the Rev. Wright was speaking in a religious sense — means ”
“Damn” in a religious sense (let us do hope the Rev. Wright was speaking in a religious sense; that is his line of work) means “to doom to eternal punishment or condemn to hell.”
So here we have a candidate for president of America attending the church of a man who preached “God damn America.”
Sounds more like Islam and “the great Satan” than the Christian doctrine of forgiveness to me.
What a terrible oversimplification of the situation, weldon.
Speaking of a doctrine of forgiveness; Hagee, Falwell, and Robertson spoke of Americans dying in 9-11 and Katrina because of America’s sinfulness and blame it squarely on certain segments of the population. McCain makes a judgment to actively pursue an endorsement from them and you find no fault with this.
Obama gets an unsolicited endorsement from Farrakhan, he “rejects and denounces” it, and critics like you condemn him. That reflects the prism you and others are using when you analyze the Wright issue.
In all the years Obama attended this church, how many sermons did he hear? How many were similar to the handful on Youtube now? How many sermons involved the social gospel and working to better the community? What did you find when you researched the TUCC? You are passing judgment on a limited amount of information probably because “that’s all you need to hear”.
This is a complex issue that is easily shaded by demagoguery and prejudice from the ivory tower.
Well, Brad , you sure let Obama off VERY lightly. I wonder if McCain had said his “spiritual advisor” was David Duke he attended Klan meetings on a weekly basis for TWENTY YEARS but “would not distance himself” from Duke or “disown” him, would you have cut him as much slack – I don’t think so.
Brad and others,
Here’s the text of the GD part of the speech: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strike law and then wants us to sing God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw. Not God Bless America. God Damn America! That’s in the Bible. For killing innocent people. God Damn America for treating us citizens as less than human… In the same speech, he refers to the Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
Certainly there is anger and hatred in his words, but there is also a definite biblical context to for the GD statements. Again, I am not condoning the remarks, but I also take issue with the effort to portray devoid of any context. I also find the double standard between the criticism of the white pastors and Wright to be a serious issue that is mostly overlooked.
Context has nothing to do with it. No pastor, regardless of race is to be cussing from the pulpit. The purpose of the church and preaching is preaching Christ and Christ crucified. That man can be redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb.
I would like to refer to Margaret’s comment. She makes a good point. Education is the only way to level the playing field for success regardless of one’s socio-economic level or race.
Sadly, people like Wright want to enable people to cast blame for their place in life rather than take responsiblity for what is in most cases the result of poor personal choices. The blame is placed on God, government, schools, or, as Wright as well as white supremists have done, an entire race of people. How does that help? Has it ever helped? Why has the phrase “family values” increasingly become a politically incorrect term?
I would rather see spiritual leaders concentrate on family. Parents who put an emphasis on their children’s success in school and are involved in the process. Bedtimes. Curfews. Hard work. Moral values.
The ones who need “damning” are those who fail to be parents and good role models for their children.
As for glorifying Africa while damning America, I have to ask why aren’t more choosing to go back? I’m here to let everyone know that Delta has a flight out every DAMN day. If those roots are so sacred while America is so worthy of damning, then go back. Don’t DAMN my country while glorifying another continent. I certainly hold no fantasy that my life would be better in the country of my ancestors..and certainly wish to BLESS America for allowing me opportunities that I would have never been allowed if my ancestors hadn’t landed here. Did they land here by choice? No. They were indentured servants who had a choice of rotting in an English prison or coming here. Thank God they did so that I’ve been able to live in a country that in spite of its faults has allowed me freedoms unlike any other.
Oh..and one other final question..
With Wright set to move into his multi-million dollar home in the exclusive gated Chicago neighborhood…I must wonder who those gates are designed to keep out. Oh..I’ll bet it’s Chicago’s roving gangs of white people… right?
GREAT QUESTION!!! THANKS GEORGIE ANNE…
[Dallas Morning News]
Georgie Anne Geyer: Why the special Muslim privileges?
Problem exemplifies what the nation will face
10:50 AM CDT on Saturday, March 29, 2008
If a writer were to make the ultimate satiric remark about Islam’s increasing presence in America, he would say something like, “And soon they’ll be having the ‘call to prayer’ in Harvard Square.”
But the line is neither ironic nor humorous: The call to prayer of a Muslim muezzin or priest was broadcast in Harvard Yard at the Widener Library in Cambridge several times in February, as well as on earlier occasions.
The undergraduate college has this winter also restricted one of the three largest gyms on its main campus to “women only” at special hours. The reason? Because a small group of female Muslim students felt that workout clothes violated the prescription that both sexes wear modest dress in shared environments.
What is going on at America’s most iconic university that we should have these two rather strange events coming at the same time?
What we are seeing is a wave of arrogance sweeping into America with the wave of Muslim immigrants and students. One searches in vain for an individual or organized Muslim voice showing real respect or even a minimal liking for America or American customs.
Instead – and the Harvard situation is only one of many examples – the predominant attitude toward America is characterized by a sense of rights unrequited and by an attitude of superiority that demands that we abide by Muslim wishes in place of our traditions.
This from the offspring of societies that, according to numerous studies including those of Arab scholars themselves, lie at the bottom of the world scale in everything from education levels, productivity and industry to the development of universities, scientific research and the rights and education of women.
And so now, in a country that prides itself on its separation of church and state, and which goes so absurdly far as to (in many cities) forbid the public display of the Christ child’s creche at Christmas, we accommodate religious traditions from countries, most of which do not even permit Christian worship and many of whose citizens are now following their most radical brethren’s cry – not to pray for conciliation with America but to wage war against it.
It is not clear yet why Harvard made this odd decision, but apparently the request by a handful of Muslim women students reached the Harvard College Women’s Center, and it was then decided that one of the college’s least used facilities should be made available only to women on Mondays from 3 to 5 p.m. and on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8 to 10 a.m.
The decision will be re-evaluated in June; meanwhile, both the gym restrictions and the calls to prayer have become the center of debate and protest.
The United States is not alone as a target of opprobrium and barely veiled distaste on the part of Muslim students. The situation in Europe is even worse.
What to make of all of this? The major problem, it must be said, is not the foreigners but America and Europe themselves. Both have essentially lost their grit in terms of protecting and defending their own principles and polities.
This fight with Islam is only beginning – and it is in many ways far more important, ultimately, than the war in the Middle East. Until America and Europe regain their voices and their self-respect, this problem, exemplified by the situation at Harvard, will only continue to grow.
Georgie Anne Geyer is a syndicated columnist. E-mail her through firstname.lastname@example.org
Earl — well said. I don’t know why everybody keeps hanging on to the ‘race card’ with whatever color knuckles theirs are! That is only a distortion of the real issue.
The Rev. has a BLASPHEMY, JUDGEMENT & LEADERSHIP problem.
BECAUSE — As we all know…
Jesus Loves the Little Children
Written By: Unknown
Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
>>>***Black and yellow, red and white***<<< They're all precious in His sight Jesus loves the little children of the world Whether you're rich or whether you're poor It matters not to Him He remembers where you're going Not where you've been Jesus loves the little children All the children of the world Black and yellow, red and white They're all precious in His sight Jesus loves the little children of the world If your heart is troubled Don't worry, don't you fret He knows that you have heard His call And he won't forget Jesus loves the little children All the children of the world Black and yellow, red and white They're all precious in His sight Jesus loves the little children of the world All around the world tonight His children rest assured That He will watch and He will keep us Safe and secure Jesus loves the little children All the children of the world Black and yellow, red and white They're all precious in His sight Jesus loves the little children of the world
The oversimplification is yours, Randy.
Let me explain.
Black guy did it? Oh, there must have been a good reason.
White guy did it? Well, then it must have been the wrong thing.
There’s a word for that, but I’m not going to say it.
Brad’s response reminds me of the old Paul Simon line “a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.” If you want a reason to mistrust Obama, you may certainly find it in his former pastor’s quotes. Many will do that. If they don’t find a reason there, they will find one elsewhere. Brad is a McCain fan, and a supporter of present Iraq war policy. That position, I believe allows him to buy into a guilt-by-association fallacy concerning Obama’s relationship to Rev. Wright. He will conveniently ignore Senator McCain’s pandering to the right many wings of his party prior to securing the nomination and his present moves to win the center by presenting more moderate-seeming positions. I care little about McCain’s ties or support from neocons, religious bigots, or selfish businessmen. I fear his utter aloofness to the economic damage to the middle class and poor among us and his militaristic tendencies (“Bomb,bomb Iran”)
Harry, it is not a fallacy. Obama’s is ***guilt-by-20-years-of-indoctrination*** in this “church.” And Wikipedia’s info on Obama’s mama [ no disrespect to the motherly OR the deceased — or to his mama ] — said she was first a Christian, then a secular humanist, then an atheist, then an agnostic.
It has to all go on the table in a presidential election. He is one theologically and patriotically messed-up dude. Plaid, paisley, polka-dotted, white, black, fruit-striped — race has nothing to do it.
“Take a walk down the street and see where this is going. You no longer feel like you are living in your own country. There is a battle going on and we have to defend ourselves. Before you know it there will be more mosques than churches”
Geert Wilders / Fitna
I’m ready to have a fitna — a fit now.
Take a walk through Lexington and Irmo SC dude, and you will see the same thing. No mosques yet!, just billboards with huge, hungry, proselytizing eyes.
[artists: “Believe SC” / 11:11 magazine]
I “believe” I’ve had enough of this crap.
Say it Weldon, say it. It is called racism, and it is every bit as bad and ugly when a black person does it as when does a white.
The thing about the black racism we’ve seen in the Wrights’ church is that this form of it seems to garner a much larger and more faithful following among average black people than white racism garners among average white people.
Is there an analog to Wrights’ church in white christendom? If so, I haven’t seen it. And if it existed I would think th MSM would jump on it. Maybe they have and I missed it. David
As I think about it, I guess many would say that the history of black folks in this country explains my observation that many more average black people seem to embrace Wrights’ virulent form of racism than do average white folk embrace white racism in its’ various forms.
I don’t think that line of reasoning goes far enough however. No matter what ones’ ethnic history is, there is no excuse for embracing Wrights’ hatred now. None. It is just as wrong for black folk to do it as it is for white. And that people know very well it is wrong explains the outrage we’ve seen in recent days.
Embracing Wrights’ racism aggravates old wounds, inflames passions without giving a sense of direction or solution, and keeps the racial divide stark and impassable. The ones ultimately most hurt by racism are the ones who embrace it rather than living good lives and working hard to improve things.
End sermon. Back to regularly scheduled programming.
The Obama camp is filled with thousands of “leaders” with the same attitude as Jeremiah Wright, and millions of deluded followers who believe the message of hate.
This is where the party ends, I can’t stand listenin’ to your racist friends…
Nice beat, no?
her muller needs some medical attention…hopefully by a black intern who reads his blog entrys…there are no racists in emergency rooms!
One would assume that Rick does not think that Rev. Wright is a racist.
I do not care if Rev. Wright and all those that touch the him of his garment are racist. It would be better for them and they would be a lot happier if they joined the human race but seems that is not going to happen.
Hate is a disease of the mind and probably the soul as well. Can you imagine living with hate for your fellow man every day and going to church on Sunday and get all that hate reinforced. How can you possibly have any kind of life. You cannot get around the fact that you are with white people every day of your life.
I truly believe that Obama has been brainwashed by Rev. Wright. I will pray that all people of color realize that a country divided along lines of racism will eventually destroy itself. Have there not been enough years that have passed since slavery to get over any injustice?
Did the black people adopt the name of African-American instead of American to keep the races apart? You can only be an African-American if you were born in Africa (in my estimation).
What a mixed up bunch of folks.
I am sure the socialists would like to cook up a medication which would make us all as delusional as they are. Until then, they just try to overpower the masses and silence dissent with brute force.
why do pat robertson and pastor hagee hate america and blame america first?…why does bob jone snot allow students to date if they are not the same race/ why do republican religious right wing nuts hate america?…remember timothy mcviegh the christian churchgoer? what about atlanta olympic terrorist that was hidden by right wing religious people?…why do they hate america?
You are living proof that even a blind dog can find a bone every now and then. well done.
Most people see Pat Robertson and Hagee as kooks, not as hateful as Jeremiah Wright, but kooks.
The Branch Davidians were incinerated by Butch Reno and the Whitewater Kid. Too bad a jury found later that the ATF warrants were no good and the Davidians returned fire in self defense.
The Atlanta bomber, Eric Rudolph, was pursued and captured by the federal government, just as we have pursued and captured or killed 90% of those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, from the other hijackers to Al Qaeda leaders, to Saddam Hussein. And we are not finished with the job.
“Most people see Pat Robertson and Hagee as kooks, not as hateful as Jeremiah Wright, but kooks.”
Change the skin color, and then would the reaction of “most people” be? Try “Hate-filled, angry black men”.
“The Branch Davidians were incinerated by Butch Reno and the Whitewater Kid. Too bad a jury found later that the ATF warrants were no good and the Davidians returned fire in self defense.”
Conspiracy theory nonsense. Please review the available documents from the DOJ.
“The Atlanta bomber, Eric Rudolph, was pursued and captured by the federal government…”
Yeah, it only took a decade, and he had a lot of help.
” just as we have pursued and captured or killed 90% of those responsible for the 9/11 attacks from the other hijackers to Al Qaeda leaders…”
Except the top leaders, of course.
“…to Saddam Hussein.”
Who had nothing to do with 9-11. When will you get it through your head?
“And we are not finished with the job.”
Meanwhile, sleeper Chinese spies have harvested a ton of info in recent years.
Bring yourself up to speed:
* Iraq ran training camps for the hijackers, which we captured intact. It’s in the full 9/11 Commission Report.
* We just captured one of the last of the Al Qaeda leaders last summer, announced 2 weeks ago. Only 1 is left. Bin Laden is probably dead, even though his latest tape says that, “Iraq was, and is, the central battleground for Jihad”, because it has oil to finance jihad, and is vital to attacking Palestine and Israel.
* The 4 surviving Davidians were found “NOT GUILTY” for shooting ATF agents in self-defense.
* How does Eric Rudolph excuse leftist, Hate-America Democrats from pursuing Muslim terrorists?
Major al Qaeda leaders killed or captured
1 Feb 2008 13:25:58 GMT
…there never has been or never will be a connection to 9/11 and sadaam…this a right wing nut lie …sunnis and shia do not get along even for terrorist actions….herr muller has again lied and displayed his lack of knowledge on any given subject….congratulations you have just won a spot on fox fake news and if it does not work out you could avoid some war service with drug addict rush limbaugh…
…anyone attempting to defend the child molestors in the branch davidians and the illegal actions of the right wing terrorist group leader koresh has indeed sunk to the lowest level of the scum of the earth…right where muller belongs….sad
A jury found the Davidians fired back at the ATF in self defense. The problem is that only 4 of them were still alive to stand trial.
The Salman Pak hijacker training camp in Iraq is connection enough with the 9/11 attacks. But no amount of connections is enough to convince welfare eaters and socialist haters of America that we should defend ourselves against any socialist state.