Category Archives: Feedback

Bear with me

Folks, I think I have the authentication thing going and working now. Trouble is, when you call up an individual post, the formatting is all screwed up. But you can still read it, and everything seems to be functional.

I’m going to continue to screen the comments for a while, though, seeing as how the first two to successfully authenticate and post did so while giving absolutely no information about themselves, which makes you wonder what the point is.

Anyway, things seem to be working, after a fashion. I’ll continue to try to improve the process. In other words, pardon our remodeling.

Was I mean to Grady, or just ‘factual?’

Patterson2

Tammy Stokes over at "Seeding Spartanburg" has filed a post* that among other things, states the following:

Thomas Ravenel won that position for one reason and one reason only.
He had an R behind his name. It wasn’t his experience or his track
record of being a fine, upstanding South Carolinian who could bring
vast knowledge and positive change to the Treasurer’s office.

It was because he ran as a Republican. And with the support of
the SC GOP, they proceeded to drag his opponent Grady Patterson’s name
through the mud in a desperate attempt to unseat one of the only
remaining elected Democrats in our state. Some of the dirty insults —
especially the personal attacks on Patterson’s age — were embarrassing,
hurtful tactics especially when the person who unseated Patterson is
now facing federal drug charges less than 7 months later. Looks like
someone with maturity and experience would have been a better choice
after all.

Personally, I find Tammy’s remarks embarrassing and hurtful. Not really, but she does cause me to revisit an idea that others have brought up in the past, and which I’ve almost entirely dismissed with a clear conscience:

Was I mean to Grady Patterson when I posted this video, and this one? Some folks think so. I know for sure that Trav Robertson, who was the ex-treasurer’s closest political assistant (mentioned in this post, and pictured in the background above), thinks so. Each time I run into him these days, he tells me what an awful person I am, specifically because of the videos. I’d like to know what y’all think.

Back before the Ravenel blowup and the Nazis praising the Confederate flag, the "He makes up stuff" clip was either my first or second most-viewed on YouTube.

That’s no moral or ethical defense, of course, but it verified an assumption I had when I put the footage up: Voters would be interested.

I further believed that their interest would be legitimate. I felt that as long as I had the video, and a means of sharing it, I should. There are certain subjective cues you pick up on in a face-to-face interview that play an inevitable part in your judgment of a candidate, but which are hard to get across to readers in a way that they both pick up on and find credible. Sometimes, the ways in which we set out our reasoning in endorsements are theoretically sound, but fail to get across that indefinable something — just how weird this candidate was, or how dumb that one seemed.

In Grady Patterson’s case, there was something about the impression he gave that caused me to think, "Here’s a good man who has given his life to public service, but it is well past time for him to retire and let others do the work." It would have been far better to see him off with a warm retirement party, with lots of grateful speeches for his contributions, than to turn him out of office so ignominiously, losing to that obnoxiously cocky young Thomas R.

Well, I did say some stuff sort of like that. But it seemed far more useful to the voters if I would just show them. (Otherwise, they might assume I was just looking at a calendar, and inferring that he should retire.) The video clips enabled me to do that.

So what do you think? Did I do right? I think I did.

Claudia weighs in

Poor Claudia. I told her via e-mail that her name had come up in this thread, and she tried to weigh in on the discussion, but came in as I was changing my comments policytwice.

So she sent me what she wanted to say by e-mail. Here it is:

Hello Brad, Herb… thank you for thinking of me… I’m flattered! I just read the email you sent, Brad, so I’m late joining this particular fray. As to the "subject at hand", are we discussing the banning of LexWolf, Brad’s mendaciousness or the management of blogs in general?? To comment on all three, well, I won’t miss Lex. Sorry, Lex, but you come off like the guy at the party everyone tries to avoid. Know-it-alls are annoying, but tolerable. Slatheringly aggressive know-it-alls don’t make many friends and, truth be known, I had taken to simply ignoring your posts because any value they contained was buried beneath so much hissing vitriol that it simply was no longer worth my time to read them. Secondly, is Brad a liar? Oh come on guys, really! Brad has opinions and philosophies just like all of us who post on this blog. Mostly he defends them with a clarity and articulateness that I envy… sometimes not so much! But, hey, this is a discussion, not an academic treatise, and it’s more like an oral argument than anything else. I don’t always agree with Brad, or several others that post here, but I respect his intellectual honesty and that of many other authors on this blog. Finally, on how to run a blog, I have no idea. Personally, I began posting on this one with a pseudonym, Lily. Yes, Herb, there were personal security concerns… thank you for understanding that! But, at the same time, it began to feel somehow dishonest… I have a reputation amongst my friends and associates as a "what you see is what you get" kind of person, and it’s something I try to remain true to. Yes, my real name is Claudia, but I prefer not to share my last name. It is quite unique, even more so than my first name, and there are some seriously crazy people in this world. My opinions are not always popular ones, especially in this state, and I while I would love to shout them from the top of the Confederate battle flag on the state house grounds that probably wouldn’t be the smartest thing to do.

Thanks for inviting me in, folks… I’ll try not to be a stranger!

Claudia

OK, now you’ve got to get past ME

All right, here’s the deal: The registration thing didn’t work out so well. It was so complicated and so secure and so not working (I think) that I couldn’t leave a comment myself to test it.

So we’ll do the thing I was trying to avoid. From now on — for the duration of this experimental period, anyway — your comments will have to wait for me to approve them.

I will try to check frequently.

Once again, if you run into problems (or think you’re running into problems), e-mail me.

Declaration of Independence from trolls

IN DOMICILE, JULY 4, 2007
The unilateral Declaration of the Blogger

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one blogger to dissolve the permissive bands which have connected him with trolls and to assume among the powers of the Web, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitles him, a decent respect to the opinions of the Blogosphere requires that he should declare the causes which impel him to the separation.

I hold these truths to be self-evident, that all discourse is not equally valid, nor constructive, nor is anyone endowed by his Creator with any unalienable Right to destroy all Harmony and chance for Civil Discourse in a forum provided by the Labour of Another. All men are equally free, however, to start their Own Blogs, where they will be fully entitled to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Etc.

Starting today, if you want to comment on this blog, you must authenticate your identity using something called Typekey. I’m not even sure how it works. I just turned it on, and wrote this post.

This is yet another experiment, designed to make this a civil forum where we can have a lively, constructive interchange of ideas without all the ad hominem, partisan garbage that we have come to expect from a number of malicious people, ranging from merely obnoxious personalities to the truly disturbed. (Most of them have one thing in common, though: They are cowards, as evidenced by their anonymity.) This has kept reasonable people away.

Welcome back, reasonable people. As to those few good souls who actually wished to add to our understanding but had some legitimate (but still mysterious to me) reasons to remain unknown, I’m sorry. This is like the steps taken in response to the Tylenol scare — a few jerks spoiling it for the rest of us. Now, you will have safety seals and a troll-proof cap to get through. Sorry.

We’ll see how this works. If it doesn’t (and within minutes, two or three particularly obsessed individuals who apparently don’t have real lives will be doing all they can to get around it), we’ll try requiring all comments to be approved by me before appearing. I REALLY don’t want to do that, but it’s an option.

So let’s try this.

If you are a legitimate, verifiable commenter who has trouble authenticating with this system, write to me at bwarthen@thestate.com. And be patient. It might be tomorrow before I can do anything about it.

Goodbye, LexWolf. Goodbye, Mary… uh, ‘Hal’

I just banned the Green Lantern from this blog. I believe that a full investigation would probably reveal that he/she had a previous identity that was also banned.

While he/she avoided certain key phrases and obsessions, there were habits — particularly a certain preferred method of covering tracks — that caused me to eye this individual from the first use of this nom de plume. But you know what? Even if this is not our same old familiar nemesis, it doesn’t really matter. The problem is with the behavior pattern. I think I’ve put up with it long enough — again. And I’m sure I’ll get the opportunity yet again.

I’m in one of those moods. I think it’s time, after warnings in the past, to ban LexWolf, too. This is a place for good-faith discussions. This recent comment is a classic example of how he imputes motivation without grounds. I have this blog so that I can explain what I think, and other people can explain what they think. It’s not for people who get their jollies from saying, "No, this is what you think…."

I’m certainly not going to allow it from people who hide behind pseudonyms. Y’all know the long-standing rule.

Not that rules are not subject to change. I’ve been considering taking a big step. For over two years, this has been a sort of Wild West town where I play sheriff and occasionally toss somebody out of the saloon or even lock them up — while all the other cowboys keep blowing off steam, but hopefully with a greater awareness of where the limits are.

The wild and woolly stuff is way past tiresome, though. I’m considering, but have not decided to adopt, a suggestion that one of y’all made a couple of months back: To require registration — everybody with his or her real, verifiable name. Maybe I’ll doing it on a trial basis.

What do y’all think?

You mean the insurance industry is AGAINST it?

Check out the letters to the editor today and be edified.

It seems that a guy who speaks for the insurance industry doesn’t like our own Paul DeMarco’s idea for a single-payer health-care system. Well, that settles that. If the middlemen, who would be completely eliminated along with all their lovely profits, think it’s a bad idea, why on Earth should anybody listen to a mere physician such as Paul?

Anyway, for y’all who are too lazy to click, here’s the letter:

Government monopoly won’t help health care
    Guest columnist Paul DeMarco (“Really fixing U.S. health care,” June 5) argued that single-payer health care should be implemented in America.
    Although Americans are clamoring for health care reform, this is one proposed solution that should be taken off the table.
    Under a single-payer system, the government could hold a monopoly over health care coverage, offering only one insurance plan option. If the government decided to reduce funding or deny coverage for medical technologies or procedures, Americans would either have to forgo potentially life-saving procedures or finance them out-of-pocket.
    Under the current system, if people are dissatisfied with their plan, they can simply switch insurance carriers.
    Any possible savings from a single-payer system would be quickly eaten up by increased use, and bureaucratic inefficiencies would replace functioning free-market systems. The result would be an overburdened, underfunded system that is more cumbersome to navigate than the current one.
    We should seek alternatives to a single-payer system to ensure health care for all.

ED BYRD
President
S.C. Association of Health Underwriters
Columbia

I was interested in how he brushed over the "any possible savings" part. Savings, of course, would be inevitable, because you would eliminate the third-party profits. Whether that were "quickly eaten up" in the way he suggests or some other way is certainly possible, but not inevitable.

Making friends, of a sort

I received this missive today, and while it’s hardly a welcome development to have someone turn his back on you, he did it in a civil way:

Mr. Warthen,
       This will be my last note to your newspaper. We’re not getting anywhere so I will bow out.
       I do thank you for communicating . . . . That is more than some newspaper folk do and even if we disagree, that’s our right, OK?

Thanks,
Irvin Shuler

I was just about to write back and say, sure, that’s cool; different strokes and all that … when I decided, just on a whim, to see what this correspondent had most recently had to say to me. I found that among my yet-unread e-mail was one he sent yesterday:

Why would "you" not want to talk about those n_____s brought across the
Atlantic by the damn yankee, money gruggers?    Were they "your" ancestors
and just how much did YOUR family make off of us?????? AGAIN ?????
Please,
Mr. Warthen……just get the hell out of our state….yes, b___h, leave this
state and
YOUR
State Paper should be forgotten.
Remember……there was a "State Paper"
editor once that pushed a little too far and
got…..well….just what he
deserved.     He spoke against Southern Folk and got just what he
deserved.    He was killed………thank goodness !!!!

Irvin
Shuler……………..NEVER ANOTHER APPOMATTOX   !!!!!

You will now, no doubt, remember this gentleman from previous correspondence.

At least, as we parted, he was in a better mood. That’s something.

No regrets about Ravenel, CowBoy

One of the respondents to my guest appearance on the news editors’ blog — a fella who style himself  "CowBoy" — had this to say:

Thomas Ravenel is not a "smart guy".  Thomas Ravenel is a nice guy and a slick guy.

I enjoy reading Brad’s editorials, but Brad should be banned from
making endorsements. Let’s see–he endorsed Bush and regrets it. He
endorsed Sanford and regrets. He endorsed Ravenel and now (I’m sure) he
regrets that. Ravenel is a lot of things–exceptional in many ways–but
he is not a state treasurer.

Brad once again has had one of his endorsements come back to haunt
him. Brad, how about no more endorsements in the future? Why don’t you
just cut your losses?

To which I have this to say:

Howdy, Pardner. I do not regret endorsing Bush. I regret having no choice but to endorse Bush.

We laid out all the things that were wrong with the president in the endorsement editorial. No surprises. But I was pretty sure that Kerry would have abandoned Iraq, and that would have been a mistake of catastrophic proportions.

It was a tragic choice we were presented with, and for the sake of our nation, I hope the political parties will not impose another such lose-lose choice on the rest of us, because we can’t afford this partisan nonsense any more.

Nor do I regret endorsing either Sanford (in 2002) or Ravenel. Knowing what we knew at the time, those were the right decisions.

We are deeply disappointed in Sanford; that doesn’t mean we would have preferred another four years of Jim Hodges.

As for Ravenel, we’re in better shape with either the governor or the Legislature appointing a treasurer to serve through 2010 than we would be with Grady Patterson again. Grady, God bless him, had served his country and state with devotion, but it was past time for him to retire.

Once again, blame the parties for not giving us better choices.

I’ve got to mosey along now.

The machine broke?

Reading a letter on tomorrow’s page on the subject, I was struck again at how often Andre Bauer does something that would draw all sorts of criticism and/or derision were anyone else to do it, but we generally don’t remark on it around here. There’s too much else out there to write about.

When we DO clear our throats to say something, of course, we are immediately subjected to howls from the Andre lobby about how we’re ALWAYS criticizing him, and why don’t we EVER write about anything else, and other easily controvertible assertions.

This has a chilling effect, so that we tend to give him one or two extra missteps before the next one we comment on? Why do we let that happen? Because Andre is the lieutenant governor, and the lieutenant governor is not a very important figure, so one can give him slack without neglecting one’s duty — at least, when there are plenty of important things to write about. Sure, it’s embarrassing for people to know this is our lieutenant governor (a title that sounds important, anyway), but in the scheme of things…

Since we’re not having elections right now, it’s not all that important to the state of South Carolina whether Andre screwed the pooch as a pilot, or the machine just broke. But this lawsuit is at least worth a raised eyebrow, is it not? I say that on the same day I read about this interesting case, and I am reminded of it.

So, any opinions out there among the brethren on the higher and lower steps of the pyramid? John Glenn? Chuck Yeager? Wrong-Way Corrigan? Anybody?

Why do YOU like Fred?

Since I was on the subject, I thought I would write my Sunday column on an aspect of the Fred Thompson phenomenon. I talked to Larry Grooms, who was sort of the spokesman for the S.C.-pols-for-Thompson thing yesterday. I’m trying to get ahold of a couple of others to ask them the same question.

You may have seen the Grooms quote in news reports, regarding the GOP field:

"They’re all good guys, but there’s something lacking in every one of
them. I think
Fred Thompson is the type of candidate that many people in this state
are looking for."

What I asked him today was what it was what it was that Thompson had that was "lacking" in the other candidates.

Specifically, I asked what Thompson had that John McCain didn’t have, since Grooms supported McCain in 2000. He didn’t really want to talk about his problems with McCain, but he did talk about the Thompson mystique a little bit.

More on that in my column Sunday.

But in the meantime — the idea of a Thompson candidacy has met a fairly warm reception in this venue. So tell me: What do you think Thompson has that the others don’t?

Nosy questions

Got this e-mail today from a nosy reader:

Please inform readers on the following:
a. How many members of "The State’s" editorial staff have children in elementary and H.S.?  Include in that count the publisher and editor-in-chief.
b. How  many of those children are in private schools?
c. How many of those children are in public schools?
d. How many of the public schools in which the staff’s children are enrolled are graded "unsatisfactory" by PACT or "No Child Left Behind" standards?

Thank you.

John Johnson
Winnsboro

Now why do I get the feeling that this is a challenge of some sort? Anyway, I replied as follows:

    I’m the only editor in editorial with a school-age child, and not for long, as she graduates next week. She will be my fifth child to graduate from public schools. Two of my colleagues have children who haven’t started school yet.
    The publisher has a teenaged stepson. I don’t know where he goes to school.
    We don’t have an editor-in-chief. I’m over editorial; another guy is over the newsroom. Totally separate arrangement.
    As for "D," none. Most of my kids graduated before those grades started, but they all went to Brookland-Cayce. So whatever that’s rated.
    Why do you ask?

What I did not mention, because it seemed irrelevant to what he seemed to be driving at, is that my youngest is graduating from a public high school in another state, which is a long story. It’s actually her third high school; she takes after her Dad in that regard (mine were in South Carolina, Florida and Hawaii). She also attended B-C, and the Governor’s School for the Arts in Greenville. She’s out of state further pursuing the art that took her to Greenville.

My other four went exclusively to Brookland-Cayce, and graduated from there. Go, Bearcats.

It’s a song about Alice — you remember Alice…

This is a follow-up post.

First — Ed, take it easy. I was trying to be considerate of you in not naming you. It’s been pointed out that it can seem unfair for me to take a comment and answer it in a post — some say I’m using my position to tear down another person — so I didn’t name you. Of course, what would "Ed" have told anybody? Not much. So no harm either way, I guess.

Secondly, as Bill said (trust our Bill to recognize a song allusion), that’s from "Alice’s Restaurant." I try not to be too mysterious, which is why, if you click on the link in the first place where I refer to the song, you get the full lyrics.

The song was actually the inspiration for the post. In the song — supposedly inspired by real-life events — Arlo Guthrie gets rejected from the draft because of his criminal record. His crime? Littering. There’s a very funny passage (the "song" is mostly spoken, and it’s about 20 minutes or more long) in which, after acknowledging he has a record, he is sent to the Group W bench, where he sits with real criminals, who at first turn their backs on him when they learn he’s just a litterbug, but come back when he adds, "and creatin’ a nuisance."

Anyway, so you don’t have to scroll or search through all that, here’s the relevant passage:

… and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, I want you to go and sit down on that bench that says Group W …. NOW kid!!"

And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W’s where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there.  Mother rapers.  Father stabbers.  Father rapers!  Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me!  And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean ‘n’ ugly
‘n’ nasty ‘n’ horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, "Kid, whad’ya get?"  I said, "I didn’t get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage."  He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering."  And they all moved away from me on the bench there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said, "And creating a nuisance."  And they all came back, shook my hand, and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing, father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the bench.  And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of things, until the Sergeant came over, had some paper in his hand, held it up and said…

Of course, it’s much better when you hear Arlo telling it.

Speaking of Arlo — did anybody notice that his daughter, who’s been living right here amongst us for years, had her last performance in Columbia a couple of weekends ago? She and her husband and kids are going to move up to the country somewhere near her Dad (which, as it happens, is not all that far from Stockbridge, Mass., where the littering crime occurred). They have plans to grow blueberries, and she wants to learn to make a pie with them. They plan to do other stuff, too — touring and such — but I really liked the part about the blueberries.

I never saw her all the time she lived here. I did see her once, though, on stage with her Dad. You’ll never guess where, so I won’t ask you to. They were performing at Disney World — Epcot, in fact. They were in this amphitheater on the lake or lagoon or whatever, and they were part of a "flower power" series.

We just sort of happened upon it, on a warm late spring or early summer afternoon. It was quite odd. Arlo knew that, and one of the first things he said to the audience was, "Yeah, I think it’s kinda weird, too."

It was a fairly intimate setting, and folks called out songs they wanted to hear. At one point, I couldn’t hear the request, but he replied, "Now you know I can’t do that here." I suppose he was referring to "Alice’s Restaurant," although it could have been "Mr. Customs Man." Anyway, he didn’t do either.

I apologize for doing another whole post on this. It started as just an answer to Ed among the comments, but then it stretched out, and I kept on adding "circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was" (that’s another song allusion), and figured I wouldn’t waste all that effort on something nobody saw, so here it is.

Immigration most foul

OK, now I see why everybody gets so upset about illegal immigrants from Mexico. It’s because what they have done is so thoroughly heinous. A correspondent on a previous post responded, after I had noted the absurdity of the idea that a non-police state would or could round up 12 million people and deport them, thusly:

We can’t catch all bank robbers, so let’s bring them out of the shadows
and get paper work on them too, Brad. And child molesters. And
murderers. Sure, we’ll get some paperwork on ’em, make ’em pay a fine,
and everything is OK, right? Is that your logic? We don’t do what’s in
this "compromise" for any other class of criminal, and it’s really so
ridiculous that no one even proposes it for murderers and child
molesters. Why are we even contemplating it for illegal aliens?

Let’s see — bank robbers, child molesters, murderers, mother rapers, father stabbers, and what else do we have here on the Group W bench? Oh, yes — a few people who walked across an invisible line in the desert to do menial labor for a pittance.

At that point, everybody moves away from the illegal aliens there on the Group W bench, but then they say, "And creating a nuisance," and everybody moves back and shakes their hands and they all have a fine time together talking about father-rapin’ and bank-robbin’ and pickin’ vegetables in the hot sun, and all sorts of groovy things …

What an odd crime to hyperventilate about. Kind of like jaywalking, only without the immediate threat of causing a traffic accident.

Our fan, Alex Sanders, on BIPEC vs. judicial elections in the OLD days

Sanderstoal

Continuing to play with audio…

I was talking to Alex Sanders on the phone yesterday, and still had my little audio-recorder setup handy from the conference call with John McCain the day before.

He started praising our editorial criticizing BIPEC’s attempt to influence our state Supreme Court election, but before he got more than a sentence into it, I said Hold on, do you mind if record this?

He said no, and the conversation drifted from his condemnation of BIPEC’s action, to the failed CIA plot, to how much better — kinda — things were in the old days. More genteel, anyway, if a tad … uh … incestuous.

In case you don’t recall all the background, before Judge Sanders was a U.S. Senate candidate and before he was president of the College of Charleston, he was the first chief judge of South Carolina’s Court of Appeals.

Anyway, here’s the clip. Enjoy. (Oh, and for some of our more literal-minded guests, I should point out that conversations with Judge Sanders tend to be highly enriched with irony, much of it self-deprecating.)

Here’s the cutline for the above photo: South Carolina Supreme Court Chief Justice Jean Toal, second from left,
has a laugh with Alex Sanders, left, after Toal received an honorary
degree during the Charleston School of Law’s first graduation Saturday,
May 19, 2007 at The Citadel in Charleston, S.C. Sanders and Edward
Westbrook, second from right, are two of the schools founders. (AP
Photo/The Post and Courier, Alan Hawes)

One editorial (or the next best thing) coming right up

Fridays are tough around here — finishing up all the weekend pages and such. A week like this is tougher than usual, since we have an extra day’s worth that needs to be done in advance, what with Monday being Yankee Memorial Day and all.

So when a call was forwarded to me from the publisher’s office, from a reader asking that we do an editorial on a subject of her choosing, we didn’t exactly drop everything and do so. Not that there was anything wrong with the subject or the point she was trying to make. In fact, my colleague who is the duty worrier about foodstuffs said "she’s right" — and we went back to work.

But before I go home tonight, it occurs to me that this lady can just do her own editorial — in fact, she’s already done it, and here it is: the phone message she left.

Sure, it’s not technically an editorial, since it’s this caller’s view and not that of the editorial board. But still, it’s something. Think of it as a kind of cool new way to do letters to the editor. Only this one’s anonymous, and we don’t allow that with letters. Anonymous, but — in keeping with our rules around here — within the bounds.

I’m having fun now that I’ve sorta kinda figured out how to do audio on here. And in this instance, I help this lady, it’s put exactly the way she wanted to put it, and I don’t have to check the facts — because it’s her message, not mine.

Ain’t modern technology wonderful?

John McCain is wrong about ONE thing…

John McCain is wrong about one issue that is of any personal importance to me: the Confederate flag. And of course the moderator in last night’s debate asked him, and only him, about it. That’s fitting, since a moderator should probe a candidate’s weak points in trying to get at the truth.

Fortunately for McCain — in terms of my vote, anyway — I don’t consider anyone’s position on that issue to be a qualification for the job of president of the United States. In fact, I’d prefer that presidential candidates stay out of the debate altogether.

Among the Republican candidates, Rudy Giuliani has the right answer — to the extent that any non-South Carolinian could have the "right" answer. He says it’s a matter for South Carolinians to decide.

Indeed it is that and only that. That’s why I disagree so strongly with the NAACP’s approach — trying (without appreciable success, I might add) to get the rest of the world to FORCE the flag down by hurting South Carolina economically. Even if such a strategy worked — which it can’t, believe me — nothing would be accomplished. You’d still be left with a state perceived — and perceiving itself, sullenly, resentfully — as a place that WANTS to fly the flag, but has been forced not to.

I don’t care what happens to a piece of cloth. I live in a state that has profound political barriers to getting its act together and catching up to the rest of the country in terms of health, wealth, educational attainment, public safety, what have you. The attitudes that keep us from working together to address those issues meaningfully are closely related to the attitudes that keep that flag flying.

Only if we come together and say, "That’s not who we are anymore; we’re better than that," will we ever move forward as a people.

Sure, it would make me feel all warm and fuzzy to hear everybody — particularly people I like, such as John McCain — echoing my own personal attitudes on this and every other important issue. But it wouldn’t accomplish anything. In fact, on this issue outside voices can probably only make things worse, not better. That’s because of the xenophobia that is a corollary of the mentality that keeps the flag flying. You’ve seen the bumper stickers: "We don’t CARE how you did it up North."

John McCain’s problem is that he actually wrestled with the issue, and wrestled too hard, ending up here, there, and all over the mat on the issue. It
was an issue he did not and probably never will understand. He
shouldn’t have wrestled with it. It’s none of his business.

I don’t mean that in a "go away and shut up, John" sense. But it has nothing to do with being president of the United States. Whatever opinion
he might have on that South Carolina matter should have no impact either on what we do about the flag, or on
whether he should be nominated and elected to the White House.

On issues that do have a bearing as to whether he should be
president, I find him to be far and away the best — among either
party’s candidates. For now.

I wrote the above thoughts, in somewhat sketchier form, in response to a comment on a previous post. Here’s how one of my more thoughtful correspondents replied:

Brad,

I’m struck by your post above re: McCain and the flag

“McCain’s problem is that he actually wrestled with the issue, and
it was an issue he did not and probably never will understand. He
shouldn’t have wrestled with it. It’s none of his business.”

I find it puzzling that you would use Steve Spurrier’s uninvited
opinion on the flag as the impetus for a barrage of editorials but then
give the presidential candidates a pass on the issue.

Part of the point of primary politics is for voters to obtain a
close look at the candidates and have them take positions on local
issues. It is a very useful way to measure them, regardless of whether
the issue will ever come to them for a decision. Some of the national
issues will likely never come to them for a decision either-for
example, if the next president doesn’t appoint a Supreme Court justice,
it’s unlikely his or her opinion on abortion will have any impact.

You expect a president to have the wherewithal and decisiveness to
respond to another 9/11 attack but don’t feel they can be bothered to
be decisive about one of the most controversial issues in SC. Every
candidate should have a specific opinion (not just “it’s a state
matter”). McCain’s courage faltered in 2000 on this issue.
Unfortunately, it appears to be failing him again; I doubt he
personally believes that the flag should be anywhere on the State House
grounds given how much this issue pricked his conscience 8 years ago.
But he’s playing it safe in 2008, one of the reasons he’s a less
attractive candidate this time around.

Your willingness to accept McCain’s timidity about the flag makes me question your ability to view him objectively.

Posted by: Paul DeMarco | May 16, 2007 1:52:53 PM

As I said, Paul, Sen. McCain is clearly wrong on the issue.

As I also said, I don’t ask any candidate for president for his or her opinion about the flag. It’s irrelevant.

There are things he’s wrong about that ARE relevant — such as his willingness to keep the Bush tax cuts in place. That I have a problem with, as a voter considering who should be the next president. But I have greater problems on such relevant issues with every other candidate.

Spurrier lives in South Carolina, and is someone who — unfortunately, given that I think football is one of the least important things in the world — a lot of people in South Carolina listen to. He, like the 4 million other people in this state, has a right and an obligation to speak out as to what he wants our elected representatives to put on our State House lawn.

His comments were the first from a high-profile South Carolinian on the issue since everybody stopped talking about it in 2000. I mean, other than South Carolinians who are leaders in a NATIONAL organization — an organization which, because it was trying to use the outside world to coerce South Carolina into doing something, is the main obstacle to South Carolinians growing up on their own and putting this issue behind them.

Spurrier provided an opportunity to discuss this in another context. It was, and remains, my great hope that in the coming months, other prominent South Carolinians who are NOT trying to use a national boycott to force something that needs to happen voluntarily. If it doesn’t happen voluntarily, if South Carolina does not evolve to the point that collectively, we WANT to do this voluntarily, then absolutely nothing of value will be achieved.

Comments from Hillary Clinton or Chris Dodd or John McCain are simply not a part of that discussion, but instead a distraction. The only reason they are asked about such things is because journalists on deadline are not a terribly reflective lot. They think, "They’re in South Carolina, and this is a controversial issue in South Carolina." It never occurs to them that it’s not an issue that has anything to do with the presidency. (This is an issue I’ve written about in other contexts — it’s now become a standard mindless ritual in the media to ask the president to comment on everything, from his underwear to the Columbine shootings, when such things have nothing at all to do with the president’s duties or responsibilities.)

As for abortion — well that IS a more relevant presidential issue than the flag, but only because the flag isn’t a presidential issue at all. As you say, Paul, the president’s only involvement with abortion is nominating Supreme Court justices, because of Roe. (If NOT for Roe, it would be a more legitimate political issue, and that is what it should be. The Court should never have removed it from the political branches.)

That said, I will not cast my own vote exclusively according to a candidate’s position on abortion. It will be one of many things I consider in making my decision about a candidate, but the candidate I choose could end up being someone who disagrees with me on that one issue.

I hope at this point to vote for McCain, with whom I happen to agree on the abortion issue, among many other issues.

But among the Republicans, my distant second choice would be Giuliani. Suppose McCain is no longer in the race when the primaries roll around. I could see looking to Giuliani instead. His stance on abortion would not prevent that.

Since THAT, which is more relevant to the job, would not deter me, why would the Confederate flag issue? As I say, I’m more likely to be bothered by the tax cut stance. I don’t feel passionately about taxes the way I do about the flag, but it IS actually relevant.

I would assert that this is the objective way to look at things — reasoning them out, as opposed to going on the basis of mere passion. I could certainly be wrong about that, of course, since an individual is probably the least disinterested judge on the matter of whether he is disinterested.

Would I like it more if McCain were "right" about the flag (and "right" is saying what Giuliani says, which is that it’s a South Carolina matter)? Absolutely. Immensely. But once more, that’s more about how it would FEEL, rather than about the conclusions I reach when I THINK about candidates and try to choose between them.

I didn’t call Joe Darby names

Just FYI, I never called the Rev. Joe Darby an extremist, or anything else unpleasant. I like Joe Darby. Nevertheless, he felt obliged to stick up for himself on our op-ed page today, to wit:


The State
’s editorial pages have been filled in recent weeks with
reactions to coach Steve Spurrier’s welcome comments on the Confederate
flag. They included columns by Brad Warthen, who supported the flag’s
removal but labeled the NAACP’s approach on the flag extreme, and Sen.
Glenn McConnell, who made the case for standing by the present flag
location and moving on.

Both
gentlemen merit a response, and I offer it as a former first vice
president of the South Carolina NAACP and one of those who drafted the
resolution for the NAACP’s interstate tourism sanctions.

It’s
your turn first, Brad — hope you don’t mind an extremist using your
first name. I’d remind you that school desegregation, voting rights and
civil rights laws didn’t just spring into being because America’s
powers that be suddenly said, “Hey, I see something unjust, let’s fix
it!” We acted as a nation in the 1960s only when organizations like the
NAACP took aggressive action, ranging from lawsuits to civil
disobedience, to demand equity. They weren’t called “extremists” back
then, but “outside agitators.” History shows that we only change and do
the right thing when we’re compelled to act and have no choice, and
that’s true in the case of the Confederate flag.

Well, I haven’t used the word "extremist" lately in this context, but I think this is what he was referring to:

… But up to now, we might as well have been shouting at a stone wall.
The NAACP and its opponents were the only ones out there making any
news on the subject, largely because news coverage is attracted,
unfortunately, to conflict.

The extremes did such a great job of
hijacking this issue, it’s like they got together and worked it out
ahead of time between them. The rest of us are trapped in this comedy
of the absurd, with the entire country laughing at us. (Have you ever
heard of anything more pathetic than the city of Columbia spending
$15,000 in a ridiculously doomed effort to get people covering the
presidential primaries here to ignore the flag? We make ourselves into
a freak show, and we think they’re going to ignore it? Come on!)

By the way, this is our editorial position on the NAACP’s stance, in case you missed it.

There’s nothing extreme about the NAACP’s position on the flag. But its approach to doing something about it polarizes the issue in a way that makes any kind of positive action extremely unlikely.

Anyway, I would never want to see the flag come down because our state felt FORCED to do it, even if that were possible. If we don’t grow to the point that we are unified in WANTING to take it down, then nothing is really accomplished.

People keep saying that there are many more important issues to be writing about — education, economic development, etc. To which I can only say, Duh. Why do you think we write about those things, day in and day out?

But the flag is worth writing about, too, because the very attitudes and detachment from reality that keep it up there also keep us from dealing meaningfully with the challenges that keep us last where we should be first. But we have to make the decision to move beyond that self-destructive mindset ourselves. Nobody can make us do it; that’s a logical contradiction.

Rev. Darby compares the NAACP’s coercive posture on the flag (or rather, attempted coercive posture, since the boycott is a bust) to marches and boycotts back in the civil rights era, when it was necessary to make courageous stands against laws that denied black people the right to vote, the right to a good job, a right to be treated equally.

But there’s a big difference. When you have a concrete obstacle such as a law that says if your skin is this color, you can’t cross this line, then whatever means you use to remove that law, you’ve had a positive effect. A barrier removed is a barrier removed, however you get there.

But the flag itself, as a concrete object, doesn’t matter. It is, as some who want to dismiss the issue, just a piece of cloth. This is about the attitude that keeps the flag flying. We have to change that. If you get rid of the flag and the attitude is unchanged, all you’ve done is hide the attitude, which will continue to poison and confound all our best efforts to achieve consensus on addressing education, economic development, public health, etc.

Personally, I believe most of us have indeed grown beyond that attitude. But our Legislature won’t recognize that. Hence my speaking up on the flag, and encouraging others to do the same — somebody besides the obsessed types who always speak up. You know, the extremists.

Why don’t these guys just leave a comment?

Just to put it where it should be — on the blog — I share this bit of fan e-mail:

 
Mr. Warthen
 
First, I suggest you seek
professional help and get your Nazi fetish fixed. Listening to you whine about
how you are so pi**ed off because you weren’t born in time to go fight them
makes me want to gag. http://blogs.thestate.com/bradwarthensblog/2007/04/column_on_the_n.html
 
The WWII generation accomplished the
defeat of the Nazis without the likes of you – in short, they didn’t need you
and they probably wouldn’t have wanted you either. You, running around the
Nazi’s demonstration, snapping photos, etc, gave them exactly what they were
looking for – ATTENTION! Congratulations on helping them achieve their own
version of “15 minutes of fame”.
 
Second – if you are implying, and I
believe, like many others of your ilk, you are, that the Confederacy was
anything like Nazi Germany, then use your pen and superior historical intellect
to explain EXACLTY how this is so. If you can’t, (and I know you can’t), then
shut up, because, from where I sit, a country which tells its opponent and the
world, “All we want is to be left alone”, is a far cry from one which sends its
armies across its borders and steamrolls over anyone who gets in their way. Oh,
by the way, in looking at the photos of the Nazis demonstrating, I do see a
confederate flag. But, I also see at least one 50-star
U.S. flag.
 
Third – in reading one of your other
blog entries, I see you once again lambasted the SCV because they issued a press
release condemning the Nazi’s use of the Confederate flag.
Of course, had the SCV remained
silent, you would have condemned them for doing so anyway. I guess it’s a case
of “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”, right? I think it’s quite clear
from all your ranting that you simply want them and others like them to sit
down, shut up or go away.
 
But I had to laugh when you got so
upset about the guy who said he’d like to see you stuck in prison with those
whom you seek to ingratiate. http://blogs.thestate.com/bradwarthensblog/2007/04/confederate_fla.html
 
Your “Oh I’m so offended” attitude,
coupled with your moaning about the lack of civility on your blog and in the
world in general, were hysterical. I have seen and heard many Confederate flag
critics, but I have to say, you are one of the most over-the-top, intolerant
people I’ve ever encountered. Your intolerance of those who don’t share your
opinion, coupled with your reaction to how other people treat you, remind me of
the schoolyard bully who just got popped in the nose and is now whining and
crying about getting picked on. Face it, you reap what you sow.
 
Fourth: Stop yapping about how the
flag “offends”. There is no law anywhere which states that someone else’s
history must be hidden in order to assuage the feelings of others. If you know
where such a thing is written, please point it out. And in case you haven’t
noticed, blacks have made the South their location of choice since the end of
the war, and left to their own devices, will, more often than not, get along
just fine with their fellow Southern white brethren. http://www.petersburgexpress.com/Pocahontas.html
 
Having read a lot of history from
original sources as well as books, I’m going to give you a history lesson on the
very subject you brought up. The Lt. Colonel was quite right, as are all the
others who write to you to tell you that you don’t know squat about history, and
that applies doubly to the issue of black support of the Confederacy. Note, I
did not say “black soldiers”, because in the technical sense at least, there
were few of those. However, if you’d like to read the stories of a couple of
them, then have a look:
 
 
 
Most so-called “black Confederates”
were in support roles, the most frequent of these roles being the body servant.
While not officially mustered in as soldiers, their roles were often blurred,
and their history is dotted with acts of heroism, and sometimes even combat. To
my knowledge, I have yet to hear of an instance of a white confederate soldier
complaining about a body servant going into combat.
 
You dare compare these men to Poles
serving in the German army? You’re not fit to shine their boots Mr. Warthog. And
unlike the Poles in the German army, these men had something to say about their
war experiences, many of them speaking of their experiences in a positive
way:
 
 
And in the post war period, when the
Confederate veterans had their reunions, these black men were always welcomed by
their white comrades:
 
 
I know it’s convenient for you and
others of your ilk to believe that the slaves waited patiently for their blue
clad liberators, but the fact of the matter is, if you read the words of many
slaves themselves, you’ll find that this was not always so. Irregardless of your
inability to see the world of the 1860s within the context of its time (and not
your time), the words of the slaves are in print for anyone to read. All you
have to do is spend 9 months reading “The Slave Narratives” : http://www.georgiaheritagecouncil.org/site2/commentary/vallante-black-history-month11.phtml
 
 
And: http://www.georgiaheritagecouncil.org/site2/commentary/vallante-black-history-month13.phtml
– This is one story you definitely should read, especially since you are a
Southerner who had several ancestors in the conflict and since you seem so
intent on selling them down the river in front of the world, essentially, I
think, to try and prove what an enlightened guy you are. You could learn a lot
from this man!
 
Some “black Confederates” were as
over the top as their white Southern comrades:
 
Others were simply doing the best
they could in this life:
 
No, they were nothing like the Slavs
who served in the German army. I know that thought makes it easy for you to
dismiss them, but it simply isn’t so. Most Southerners, black as well as white,
have always had a strong love of home and family. Life may not have been
perfect, but the people you know are often times more reliable than the people
you don’t know, and the Union army was not always on its best behavior,
especially when it came to Southern blacks. Plenty of motivation here for a
slave to take the Southern side, I’d say:
 
 
 
 
 
Or how about this – from the history
of your own state?
 
“We have been told of successful
outrages of this unmentionable character being practiced upon women dwelling in
the suburbs. Many are understood to have taken place in remote country
settlements and two cases are described where young negresses were brutally
forced by the wretches and afterwards murdered – one of them being thrust, when
half dead, head down, into a mud puddle, and there held until she was
suffocated. But this must suffice. The shocking details should not now be made,
but that we need, for the sake of truth and humanity, to put on record, in the
fullest types and columns, the horrid deeds of these marauders upon all that is
pure and precisions – all that is sweet and innocent – all that is good, gentle,
gracious, dear and enobling – within the regards of white and Christian
civilization. And yet we should grossly err if, while showing forbearance of the
Yankees in respect to our white women, we should convey to any innocent reader
the notion that they exhibited a like forbearance in the case of the black. The
poor negroes were terribly victimized by their brutal assailants, many of them,
besides the instance mentioned, being left in a condition little short of death.
Regiments, in successive relays, subjected scores of these poor women to the
torture of their embraces, and – but we dare not farther pursue the subject – it
is one of such loathing and horror. There are some horrors which the historian
dare not pursue – which the painter dare not delineate. They both drop the
curtain over crimes which humanity bleeds to contemplate.”

“A City Laid Waste”, William Gilmore
Simms, Page 90
 
I really don’t expect to change you
or enlighten you. If this history lesson sticks a pin in your inflated ego, or
makes you pout, then I’d consider my job done.
 
And just for the record – I see a
couple of posts about the flag being raised on the State House in order to defy
Federal integration mandates. I’ve also heard this argument in other places,
Georgia for one, and I don’t buy it. You see, I’m old enough to remember the
Civil Rights demonstrations and resistance to federally mandated integration. I
remember Southern politicians PUBLICLY and LOUDLY speaking out against Federal
attempts to enforce integration. NO ONE WAS SHY about speaking out when it came
to these matters. Those were different times. No one was afraid to speak out for
fear of ostracism. There was NO need to indulge in hidden signals or code words
or surreptitious “flag-raising”, done with a wink of the eye. And I don’t
remember one Southern politician from any state saying that they would raise the
Confederate flag on any state house anywhere in order to protest any Federal
integration laws. Go ahead, look through the records. See if you can find a
quote of one Southern politician saying that this was so. You won’t find any.
 

Commack, NY

SCV Camp 3000
(Associate)
SCV Camp 1506
(Associate)

Now I’m getting lectured by "Confederates" from NY. It’s a weird world. And the one those guys live is in even weirder.

How much time do you suppose he spent on that? And WHY? I include this only because — while I personally only care about what South Carolinians think about the flag, since we’re the ones who have to decide what to do with it — I get an inordinate number of these, and they constitute part of the strangeness of this whole debate. Wannabe Confederates in Georgia, Florida, New York. It’s wild.

I get lectured on history … again

One of the most tiresome traits of those who defend the absurd practice of flying the Confederate flag at our State House is their smug belief that THEY are great students of history, and the rest of us are — among our many faults — ignorant.

Here’s an e-mail I got over the weekend:

Subject: Sterotyping and Logic Fallacies

    Dear Mr. Warthen,

I have taught secondary school, undergraduate, and graduate history for a number of years. I frequently encounter those who refuse to respect Southerners’ heritage due to bigotry and stereotyping.  Here’s a couple of photos I hope might show that stereotyping is wrong. The Kansas City Star newspaper ran a short column last week on a program I give around the country on black Confederate soldiers. The Battle Flag belongs to them as well.  Over-generalizing is a logic fallacy. The Battle Flag’s meaning isn’t defined by a minority of racists any more than they can define the meaning of our U.S. flag that they use.

    Regards,
    Ed Kennedy
    LtCol, US Army (ret)

Thank you for your service to your country, colonel. But I can’t resist sharing these thoughts with you:

    To enlarge
your perspective, you should probably do a little research on the Wehrmacht’s
Ost battalions
. There were likely  more Poles and other Eastern Europeans in the
German Army than there were blacks in the Confederate — that doesn’t mean the
Nazis didn’t want to enslave (or kill) Slavs, or that they didn’t regard them as
subhuman
.
 
    You might
also want to study up on the Stockholm Syndrome.
 
    When you
think about it, black soldiers in the Confederate army is hardly a more
surprising phenomenon than poor whites, who made up the vast majority of the
army. Both were dupes of the ruling class. Anyone who fought to support the
cause of secession who did NOT own slaves was a person risking his life for a
cause that was not his own, no matter what delusions he may have carried into
battle.
 
 
    … And it’s
spelled "stereotyping."